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Rich Geldreich Who Worked On The VOGL OpenGL Debugger Has Left Valve
Posted , 10 June 2014 at 9:24 am UTC / 10331 views
I actually got tipped off about Rich Geldreich leaving Valve in early May, but refrained from saying anything until he stated it publicly, and that has now happened.

In his last blog post he said this, titled "DirectX Creator Says Appleā€™s Metal Heralds the End of OpenGL" he notes another dig at OpenGL:
Alex St. JohnNearly twenty years later OpenGL still sucks for games, OpenGL drivers are STILL consistently broken across devices, OpenGL is still driven by CAD applications
So, it seems Rich is completely hung-up on OpenGL vs everything else to include that quote above in his own blog post.

To me it just sounds like more warmongering from Apple fans, but I haven't heard much on Apple's Metal API to properly comment on it. Although it's targetting iOS, and not the desktop. So I utterly fail to see how it will damage OpenGL.

The same kind of thing was said about DirectX 12 that it will blow OpenGL away. Even though a developer from the studio "Naughty Dog" (A big AAA studio) said:
Cort Stratton, Naughty DogThat session was pure marketing hyperbole

Rich signs off the blog with an actual comment himself:
Rich Geldreich, Ex-ValveBTW - I'm no longer at Valve or working on vogl. And no, I'm not being paid by, nor do I know anyone still at Apple, lol.

After his heated blog posts on the state of OpenGL and driver support it's a shame he has left Valve, as he was doing such great work on the VOGL OpenGL debugger which developers have wanted.

I have reached out to Rich for a chat to see if we can find out anything more.

Tell us what you think in the comments folks.

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mirv commented on 10 June 2014 at 9:48 am UTC
  • GOL Supporter

I hope vogl work continues with others. I've been using both it and apitrace, but normally have a better time of things with vogl. So cheers to Rich for that, and all the best in future endeavours!

I hope vogl work continues with others. I've been using both it and apitrace, but normally have a better time of things with vogl. So cheers to Rich for that, and all the best in future endeavours!
2 Likes
lave commented on 10 June 2014 at 10:18 am UTC

lol that name "Geldreich" is german and means hes got lots of money and then his parents decided to name him Rich.

lol that name :D "Geldreich" is german and means hes got lots of money and then his parents decided to name him Rich.
2 Likes
3vi1 commented on 10 June 2014 at 10:47 am UTC

You should drop the first part of the blog quote and just leave the part where he says he left Valve.

Any reasonable person is going to be unable to discern what Geldreich said versus what St. John said. The way it's pasted above, it actually looks like you're quoting Geldreich quoting St. John quoting Geldreich badmouthing OpenGL, which doesn't seem to be the case when you follow the links.

You should drop the first part of the blog quote and just leave the part where he says he left Valve. Any reasonable person is going to be unable to discern what Geldreich said versus what St. John said. The way it's pasted above, it actually looks like you're quoting Geldreich quoting St. John quoting Geldreich badmouthing OpenGL, which doesn't seem to be the case when you follow the links.
0 Likes
liamdawe commented on 10 June 2014 at 10:50 am UTC

Adjusted it to be clearer.

Adjusted it to be clearer.
0 Likes
drmoth commented on 10 June 2014 at 11:18 am UTC

Pfff sounds more like politics than cold hard logic, not unlike the spats you get between talented developers, each of which has a particular view on how things should be done. The St John article is just rubbish, the dying cries of an old hack trying to get some attention. He makes some valid points but overall the article reeks of bias and opinion. "Nearly twenty years later OpenGL still sucks for games", which is just plain untrue, if your drivers are solid (e.g. Nvidia). It's the PC ecosystem that's difficult to target due to the range of hardware, which is why Apple has such a narrow focus and benefits from this. Metal is IOS only...mobile not desktop, which is why it's such a low level API..duh!! We've come full circle because the mobile revolution brought us back to the beginning again - slower processors needing plenty of optimization techniques to get good performance...

Rich just sounds like he needs a breath of fresh air...and to go back to his favourite API, which is a purely subjective thing. Gabe Newell is a billionaire because he has vision. And currently his vision is SteamOS, and I find this very, very exciting. An OS that targets a huge range of hardware worked for Android and worked for Microsoft. It doesn't necessarily result in the most optimized or refined output, unlike Apple's walled (multiple concentric walls) garden, but it still succeeds, because variation and mutation ensures survival, just like in biology.

Still, sad that Rich has stopped working on VOGL, sounds like he did a great job.

Pfff sounds more like politics than cold hard logic, not unlike the spats you get between talented developers, each of which has a particular view on how things should be done. The St John article is just rubbish, the dying cries of an old hack trying to get some attention. He makes some valid points but overall the article reeks of bias and opinion. "Nearly twenty years later OpenGL still sucks for games", which is just plain untrue, if your drivers are solid (e.g. Nvidia). It's the PC ecosystem that's difficult to target due to the range of hardware, which is why Apple has such a narrow focus and benefits from this. Metal is IOS only...mobile not desktop, which is why it's such a low level API..duh!! We've come full circle because the mobile revolution brought us back to the beginning again - slower processors needing plenty of optimization techniques to get good performance... Rich just sounds like he needs a breath of fresh air...and to go back to his favourite API, which is a purely subjective thing. Gabe Newell is a billionaire because he has vision. And currently his vision is SteamOS, and I find this very, very exciting. An OS that targets a huge range of hardware worked for Android and worked for Microsoft. It doesn't necessarily result in the most optimized or refined output, unlike Apple's walled (multiple concentric walls) garden, but it still succeeds, because variation and mutation ensures survival, just like in biology. Still, sad that Rich has stopped working on VOGL, sounds like he did a great job.
2 Likes
Belarrius commented on 10 June 2014 at 12:11 pm UTC

drmothPfff sounds more like politics than cold hard logic, not unlike the spats you get between talented developers, each of which has a particular view on how things should be done. The St John article is just rubbish, the dying cries of an old hack trying to get some attention. He makes some valid points but overall the article reeks of bias and opinion. "Nearly twenty years later OpenGL still sucks for games", which is just plain untrue, if your drivers are solid (e.g. Nvidia). It's the PC ecosystem that's difficult to target due to the range of hardware, which is why Apple has such a narrow focus and benefits from this. Metal is IOS only...mobile not desktop, which is why it's such a low level API..duh!! We've come full circle because the mobile revolution brought us back to the beginning again - slower processors needing plenty of optimization techniques to get good performance...

Rich just sounds like he needs a breath of fresh air...and to go back to his favourite API, which is a purely subjective thing. Gabe Newell is a billionaire because he has vision. And currently his vision is SteamOS, and I find this very, very exciting. An OS that targets a huge range of hardware worked for Android and worked for Microsoft. It doesn't necessarily result in the most optimized or refined output, unlike Apple's walled (multiple concentric walls) garden, but it still succeeds, because variation and mutation ensures survival, just like in biology.

Still, sad that Rich has stopped working on VOGL, sounds like he did a great job.

+1

[quote=drmoth]Pfff sounds more like politics than cold hard logic, not unlike the spats you get between talented developers, each of which has a particular view on how things should be done. The St John article is just rubbish, the dying cries of an old hack trying to get some attention. He makes some valid points but overall the article reeks of bias and opinion. "Nearly twenty years later OpenGL still sucks for games", which is just plain untrue, if your drivers are solid (e.g. Nvidia). It's the PC ecosystem that's difficult to target due to the range of hardware, which is why Apple has such a narrow focus and benefits from this. Metal is IOS only...mobile not desktop, which is why it's such a low level API..duh!! We've come full circle because the mobile revolution brought us back to the beginning again - slower processors needing plenty of optimization techniques to get good performance... Rich just sounds like he needs a breath of fresh air...and to go back to his favourite API, which is a purely subjective thing. Gabe Newell is a billionaire because he has vision. And currently his vision is SteamOS, and I find this very, very exciting. An OS that targets a huge range of hardware worked for Android and worked for Microsoft. It doesn't necessarily result in the most optimized or refined output, unlike Apple's walled (multiple concentric walls) garden, but it still succeeds, because variation and mutation ensures survival, just like in biology. Still, sad that Rich has stopped working on VOGL, sounds like he did a great job.[/quote] +1
0 Likes
commander dave commented on 10 June 2014 at 1:00 pm UTC

@drmoth

Perhaps you missed the previous bit about Alienware shipping SteamMachines with Windows 8. You're right about Newell, he does have a vision: it's exactly the same vision any corporation has, though - and that's to make money make money make money. It's not out of kindness of his heart that Valve "switched" to Linux, it was because they felt Microsoft was threatening their bottom line. What this means is that if he still profits via SteamMachines while letting others (in this case, Alienware) bear the brunt of thinner profit margins, he couldn't care less about Linux, Free software, or whatever other value traditionally associated with those. Of course, Steam has already shown this relationship is really just a dying tradition, as plenty of people have been perfectly happy to support Valve's culture of closedness. In fact, every second post here is praising them in some way. Sound of freedom dying? Cheers of approval.

As for the actual news here, good riddance. I never stop wondering how people who use "lol" to end their sentences get hired by anyone.

@drmoth Perhaps you missed the previous bit about Alienware shipping SteamMachines with Windows 8. You're right about Newell, he does have a vision: it's exactly the same vision any corporation has, though - and that's to make money make money make money. It's not out of kindness of his heart that Valve "switched" to Linux, it was because they felt Microsoft was threatening their bottom line. What this means is that if he still profits via SteamMachines while letting others (in this case, Alienware) bear the brunt of thinner profit margins, he couldn't care less about Linux, Free software, or whatever other value traditionally associated with those. Of course, Steam has already shown this relationship is really just a dying tradition, as plenty of people have been perfectly happy to support Valve's culture of closedness. In fact, every second post here is praising them in some way. Sound of freedom dying? Cheers of approval. As for the actual news here, good riddance. I never stop wondering how people who use "lol" to end their sentences get hired by anyone.
1 Likes
mirv commented on 10 June 2014 at 1:20 pm UTC
  • GOL Supporter

commander dave@drmoth
As for the actual news here, good riddance. I never stop wondering how people who use "lol" to end their sentences get hired by anyone.

Despite that I feel such character attacks are entirely out of place anywhere, I do want to point out that Rich didn't say that - he posted a link to a forum where someone else was posting a summary of a chain of developers commenting back & forwards.
[edit - my mistake, I was thinking of wrong "lol", but I'll stand by the gist of what I was saying]

And while I may not agree with many things Rich has said about OpenGL, he at least backed himself up - which in turn has lead to quite a few interesting, and very civil, discussions about some of the perceived problems, and how things should be done with current OpenGL. So we should all at least try do the same here.

[quote=commander dave]@drmoth As for the actual news here, good riddance. I never stop wondering how people who use "lol" to end their sentences get hired by anyone.[/quote] Despite that I feel such character attacks are entirely out of place anywhere, I do want to point out that Rich didn't say that - he posted a link to a forum where someone else was posting a summary of a chain of developers commenting back & forwards. [edit - my mistake, I was thinking of wrong "lol", but I'll stand by the gist of what I was saying] And while I may not agree with many things Rich has said about OpenGL, he at least backed himself up - which in turn has lead to quite a few interesting, and very civil, discussions about some of the perceived problems, and how things should be done with current OpenGL. So we should all at least try do the same here.
0 Likes
liamdawe commented on 10 June 2014 at 1:24 pm UTC

dave was referring to the bit Rich did say where it he ends it with "lol".

I have edited his reply though as it was completely un-needed to call him that.

dave was referring to the bit Rich did say where it he ends it with "lol". I have edited his reply though as it was completely un-needed to call him that.
0 Likes
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