Valve and game developers have a bit of a fight on their hands here, with a French court ruling that Valve should allow users to re-sell their digital games.
Reported by the French website Next Inpact, the French consumers group UFC Que Choisir had a victory against Valve as French courts have ruled against them on the topic of reselling digital content. From what I've read and tried to understand, the courts have basically said that when you buy something on Steam it is indeed a proper purchase and not a subscription.
Valve has been ordered to pay damages at €20K plus €10K to cover some costs. On top of that, they will also have to publish the judgement on Steam's home page (presumably only for users in France) and for it to remain visible for three months. If they don't, they will get a fine for each day of €3K. To Valve though, that's likely pocket change. The bigger issue though, is how other countries inside and outside the EU could follow it.
Speaking to PC Gamer who got a statement from Valve, they are going to fight it. Of course they will though, they could stand to lose quite a lot here and it would set a pretty huge precedent for other stores like GOG, Epic, Humble, itch and all the rest.
There's a lot to think about with this situation. Valve could end up changing the way they deal with this, just like they did with the nicer refunds option which came about after legal issues too. Imagine being able to sell and transfer a game over to another Steam user. Valve could take a cut of that most likely too.
Something to think on there is how this could affect game developers too, I'm all for consumer rights but I do try to think about all angles. We could end up looking at higher prices overall, no release day discounts, more micro transactions, more games updated as a constant service, games that require an online account as a service so you're not paying for an actual product and so on as developers try to keep more income when many smaller developers are already struggling.
Interesting times.
Hat tip to Nibelheim.
Quoting: pbPiracy killed Amiga gaming, socialism will kill PC gaming?
Dude can you not please ...
Or more precisely , "if you wanna be taken seriously could be please take off the fuckin' tin foil hat for at the very fucking least enough time to let you type a coherent message ?"
Quoting: TheSyldatDude can you not please ...
Or more precisely , "if you wanna be taken seriously could be please take off the fuckin' tin foil hat for at the very fucking least enough time to let you type a coherent message ?"
I was just removing that part the moment you were quoting it. ;-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine#Application_to_digital_copies
QuoteIn Europe, the European Court of Justice ruled, on July 3, 2012, that it is indeed permissible to resell software licenses even if the digital good has been downloaded directly from the Internet, and that the first sale doctrine applied whenever software was originally sold to a customer for an unlimited amount of time, as such sale involves a transfer of ownership, thus prohibiting any software maker from preventing the resale of their software by any of their legitimate owners.[5][6][7] The court requires that the previous owner must no longer be able to use the licensed software after the resale, but finds that the practical difficulties in enforcing this clause should not be an obstacle to authorizing resale, as they are also present for software which can be installed from physical supports, where the first-sale doctrine is in force.[8][9] The ruling applies to the European Union, but could indirectly find its way to North America; moreover the situation could entice publishers to offer platforms for a secondary market.
Quoting: pbThat's it, I'm telling my son right now to stop dreaming of developing games. This basically legalises keyshops and now even allowing you to sell the games you're already played and finished, if it wasn't bad enough before... Piracy killed Amiga gaming, socialism will kill PC gaming?Can we maybe not be so dramatic? Some of us are old enough to remember that that’s how it was for the majority of video gaming’s existence. And books, DVDs, cars, etc. Sure it would be a disruptive change, but as long as it doesn’t open the door to duplication (piracy), the market can adapt. It might not be pretty for a while, but it won’t just die like that.
And I completely agree with other that stated "what took you so long"?
I'm not sure what to think of the fear for indie games. In my opinion only high volume games will have an actual secondary market that may cut into their profits. The reason why there is a crisis in the indie industry is because of the extreme market over-saturation. I mean you just can't expect that everyone was waiting for generic pixel art side scroller #6254.
Quoting: pbThis basically legalises keyshops and now even allowing you to sell the games you're already played and finished, if it wasn't bad enough before...
good point G2A are rubbing their hands with this.
Last edited by Koopacabras on 19 September 2019 at 11:02 pm UTC
Quoting: chancho_zombieThis sound really authoritarian, how can a government force a store to sell games cheaper if they don't want. That's what sounds not ethical for me. Valve or any store shouldn't be forced to sell something they don't want or don't meet their standards.
The same way it can 'force' a store to give out refunds. Is it inconvenient/costly? Probably. But otherwise it'd be impossible to change and improve our regulatory systems. And in this situation I'd argue there's a strong case of the individual's rights over that which they purchase. Also keep in mind that digital goods are still pretty new to the world, and their nature continues to change (DRM, Games-as-Service, etc), and that means our laws have to change with it.
Quoting: ShmerlHm, according to this. EU already allowed it before. So what's new in this ruling?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine#Application_to_digital_copies
QuoteIn Europe, the European Court of Justice ruled, on July 3, 2012, that it is indeed permissible to resell software licenses even if the digital good has been downloaded directly from the Internet, and that the first sale doctrine applied whenever software was originally sold to a customer for an unlimited amount of time, as such sale involves a transfer of ownership, thus prohibiting any software maker from preventing the resale of their software by any of their legitimate owners.[5][6][7] The court requires that the previous owner must no longer be able to use the licensed software after the resale, but finds that the practical difficulties in enforcing this clause should not be an obstacle to authorizing resale, as they are also present for software which can be installed from physical supports, where the first-sale doctrine is in force.[8][9] The ruling applies to the European Union, but could indirectly find its way to North America; moreover the situation could entice publishers to offer platforms for a secondary market.
Again in France individually digital purchases are in legalistic limbo , and juridical limbo
A precedent needed to be set ON FRENCH GROUND .
Also the E.U ruling is nice and cute but from a juridical stand point is strictly theoretical .
While here the ruling is specifically about saying "Nooo you're not leasing anything you're selling goods and as such rules of ownership of our laws applying to cultural goods in particular do apply "
Our framework for cultural goods VS general goods is a bit peculiar . And throwing games sold on steam where they belong ( in the cultural goods ballpark ) is gonna change quite a lot in france at least .
Quoting: mylkasoo i gonna make some epic accounts and then i sell the free games i got.....
another good point, we can forget about free keys!
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