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Campo Santo, developer of Firewatch has joined Valve

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It seems Valve are quite serious about getting back into making games, as Campo Santo the developer of Firewatch has joined them.

Writing on their official website in a post, the team from Campo Santo confirmed that the news is true. They said they found that people at Valve share the same values that they do, so it became an "obvious match". Expanding on that, they said this:

We had a series of long conversations with the people at Valve and everyone shared the satisfaction we take in working with people whose talents dwarf our own to make things we never thought possible. Both sides spoke about our values and how, when you get right down to it, we, as human beings, are hard-limited by the time we have left when it comes to making the things we care about and believe in. They asked us if we’d all be interested in coming up to Bellevue and doing that there and we said yes.

They confirmed that their next game, In the Valley of Gods, is still being made and so it's now a Valve game.

Personally, I think it's great that Valve are bringing in some obviously talented folk to make games. Valve have a lot of resources and contacts that can help for sure. It should also mean they have good Linux support, since Valve are still committed to Linux gaming.

Since it will now be a Valve game, it will be interesting to see if In the Valley of Gods will make it to GOG. I wouldn't expect it to now, but maybe Valve will surprise us there.

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136 comments
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Mblackwell 26 April 2018 at 1:25 am UTC
Search for the words "backup" and "copy" in the Steam TOS and be amazed.
Shmerl 26 April 2018 at 1:30 am UTC
MblackwellSearch for the words "backup" and "copy" in the Steam TOS and be amazed.

The only mention of backup that I see is about backing up your system itself, before using any beta versions (I assume as a precaution in case they bork your whole system). So it's unrelated to the above:

QuoteIf you decide to install and/or use Beta Software, you shall only use it in compliance with its purposes, i.e. for testing and improvement purposes and in any case not on a system or for purposes where the malfunction of the Beta Software can cause any kind of damage. In particular, maintain full backups of any system that you choose to install Beta Software on.

Regarding copying, here is the relevant part I assume you are referring to:

QuoteYou may not use the Content and Services for any purpose other than the permitted access to Steam and your Subscriptions, and to make personal, non-commercial use of your Subscriptions, except as otherwise permitted by this Agreement or applicable Subscription Terms.

QuoteExcept as otherwise permitted under this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use), or under applicable law notwithstanding these restrictions, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, publish, distribute, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any proprietary notices or labels from the Content and Services or any software accessed via Steam without the prior consent, in writing, of Valve.

TL;DR: you may not copy.


Last edited by Shmerl at 26 April 2018 at 1:33 am UTC. Edited 3 times.
Doc Angelo 26 April 2018 at 8:09 am UTC
That means I'm not allowed to make a copy of this application: https://store.steampowered.com/app/404790/

This really shows that legal speech is not literal 100% fit for *every and all* cases in real life. That's just how it is. Ideally, it should be, and I think everybody agrees on that. But I don't think it's possible every time. Every single legal document has this problem.

Edit: As English is not my native tongue: What does "may not" mean? Shouldn't it be "must not" for a definitive "don't ever do this"?


Last edited by Doc Angelo at 26 April 2018 at 10:14 am UTC. Edited 2 times.
tuubi 26 April 2018 at 8:58 am UTC
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Doc AngeloEdit: As English is not my native tongue: What does "may not" mean? Shouldn't it be "must not" for a definitive "don't ever do this"?
It means "you are not allowed to" in this context.
Scoopta 26 April 2018 at 10:28 am UTC
Maelrane
Doc AngeloValve can still release the game on Steam without DRM protection. Half-Life 2 is DRM free for example.

Steam itself is DRM.

Albeit it's the only one I accept and can live with, it is, per definition, DRM.
People seem to have this misconception about steam. It is NOT DRM. It is a storefront which provides optional DRM. It is up to developers to use it. You can publish to steam without using the steam DRM. It's really easy to tell if a game has been DRMed. Run the executable from a terminal. If it changes your steam status then it's using the steam API and most likely will refuse to run without steam. If not then you can copy and move that game around and it will run just fine without steam. I know for example super hot is DRM free. There are others. Honestly even the DRM valve provides is really weak. They tell you on the steam works developer page not to rely on it for preventing piracy so even valve recognizes it's weak. Honestly I wouldn't even call it DRM. From a development standpoint it's a single method call that just ensures your game is running through steam which is technically DRM but it's also just a damn easy way to make sure any following calls to the steam API will go through.


Last edited by Scoopta at 26 April 2018 at 10:32 am UTC. Edited 2 times.
mirv 26 April 2018 at 11:53 am UTC
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Scoopta
Maelrane
Doc AngeloValve can still release the game on Steam without DRM protection. Half-Life 2 is DRM free for example.

Steam itself is DRM.

Albeit it's the only one I accept and can live with, it is, per definition, DRM.
People seem to have this misconception about steam. It is NOT DRM. It is a storefront which provides optional DRM. It is up to developers to use it. You can publish to steam without using the steam DRM. It's really easy to tell if a game has been DRMed. Run the executable from a terminal. If it changes your steam status then it's using the steam API and most likely will refuse to run without steam. If not then you can copy and move that game around and it will run just fine without steam. I know for example super hot is DRM free. There are others. Honestly even the DRM valve provides is really weak. They tell you on the steam works developer page not to rely on it for preventing piracy so even valve recognizes it's weak. Honestly I wouldn't even call it DRM. From a development standpoint it's a single method call that just ensures your game is running through steam which is technically DRM but it's also just a damn easy way to make sure any following calls to the steam API will go through.

A storefront that can remove titles from your hard drive without your permission is, to me, if not DRM in name, then DRM in nature.
The reliance on Steam for many games is just as bad. No Steam? Can't play. Sometimes that turns into no Steam online, can't play. Technicalities aside, it's worth remembering that you can only play your games so long as Valve permit, and while it's technically possible to unhook some titles from Steam via (country dependent) legal personal backups, Valve don't exactly encourage that. Nothing against Valve there, more that people should really be more aware of what Steam really is.

I mean, this thread got derailed so much anyway, what the hell.
Doc Angelo 26 April 2018 at 3:16 pm UTC
mirvA storefront that can remove titles from your hard drive without your permission is, to me, if not DRM in name, then DRM in nature.
The reliance on Steam for many games is just as bad. No Steam? Can't play. Sometimes that turns into no Steam online, can't play. Technicalities aside, it's worth remembering that you can only play your games so long as Valve permit, and while it's technically possible to unhook some titles from Steam via (country dependent) legal personal backups, Valve don't exactly encourage that. Nothing against Valve there, more that people should really be more aware of what Steam really is.

I mean, this thread got derailed so much anyway, what the hell.

You're not wrong regarding DRMed titles on Steam. But this talk is about games on Steam without DRM. You can play those whenever you like.
mirv 26 April 2018 at 4:54 pm UTC
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Doc Angelo
mirvA storefront that can remove titles from your hard drive without your permission is, to me, if not DRM in name, then DRM in nature.
The reliance on Steam for many games is just as bad. No Steam? Can't play. Sometimes that turns into no Steam online, can't play. Technicalities aside, it's worth remembering that you can only play your games so long as Valve permit, and while it's technically possible to unhook some titles from Steam via (country dependent) legal personal backups, Valve don't exactly encourage that. Nothing against Valve there, more that people should really be more aware of what Steam really is.

I mean, this thread got derailed so much anyway, what the hell.

You're not wrong regarding DRMed titles on Steam. But this talk is about games on Steam without DRM. You can play those whenever you like.

Not necessarily. The games may depend on Steam features or libraries (there are games I cannot run because the "steam runtime" libs are borked). And you have to manually copy away from any Steam control. Otherwise Valve can basically delete your game anytime they want.

And this talk ideally never belonged in this area to begin with.
Doc Angelo 26 April 2018 at 5:57 pm UTC
mirvNot necessarily. The games may depend on Steam features or libraries (there are games I cannot run because the "steam runtime" libs are borked).

There are some games that need specific libraries to run. That's an old problem with Linux gaming. I remember that I had to run Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri with a line like this: "LD_PRELOAD=/path/to/libraries ./SMAX". I bought this game retail on a disc, not for or via Steam. If anything, Valve made this more easy with their libs. A lot, I think.

If a game has certain features like leader boards or achievement but works otherwise, there is no problem if it still works as intended.

If there is no mechanism preventing you from copying the game files to another machine (without Steam installed) and the game still runs, there are DRM issues.


mirvAnd you have to manually copy away from any Steam control. Otherwise Valve can basically delete your game anytime they want.

I assume you are talking about keys from various reseller sites that get deactivated when there was fraud involved. That of course sucks, but I made it a habit to never buy keys from dubious sources.

Apart from that, I never heard that Valve removed a game from a library.


Last edited by Doc Angelo at 26 April 2018 at 5:58 pm UTC. Edited 3 times.
mirv 26 April 2018 at 6:30 pm UTC
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Doc Angelo
mirvAnd you have to manually copy away from any Steam control. Otherwise Valve can basically delete your game anytime they want.

I assume you are talking about keys from various reseller sites that get deactivated when there was fraud involved. That of course sucks, but I made it a habit to never buy keys from dubious sources.

Apart from that, I never heard that Valve removed a game from a library.

Neg. I mean they can delete your access to the game, and remove it from your hard drive entirely.
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