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It seems Canonical have done a bit of a U-turn on dropping 32bit support for Ubuntu, as many expected they would do. Their official statement is now out for those interested.

The most important part to be aware of is their new plan:

Thanks to the huge amount of feedback this weekend from gamers, Ubuntu Studio, and the WINE community, we will change our plan and build selected 32-bit i386 packages for Ubuntu 19.10 and 20.04 LTS.

We will put in place a community process to determine which 32-bit packages are needed to support legacy software, and can add to that list post-release if we miss something that is needed.

That's not the end of it though of course, eventually 32bit will be dropped which is inevitable really. Just not fully this time. Touching on this, they said in the post about using "container technology" to address "the ultimate end of life of 32-bit libraries" so hopefully by that time everything they need will be in place to make it super easy for users.

I'm glad Canonical have seen some sense on this, they clearly didn't communicate it well enough to begin with but they at least understand when they've made a big mistake like this and owning up to failures is part of what builds trust, so I'm happier now. Next time this happens, I just hope they give a very clear roadmap giving everyone proper time to prepare, which they didn't this time.

Their full statement is here. It will be interesting to see how Valve react, after announcing an end of Ubuntu support for Steam for Ubuntu 19.10 onwards.

Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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133 comments
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Klaus 26 June 2019 at 9:02 am UTC
jasonm
Shmerl
jasonmThat's fine, you can be out. Just how many 32 bit apps do you run on your machine? I run one, steam.

I guess you are not a gamer and not in this topic then. A lot of older games are 32-bit, especially Wine use case. I'd say any game older than from 2015 - is very likely 32-bit. That's a lot of games! So Steam client itself is pretty much irrelevant in comparison with sheer amount of 32-bit games.


But they are keeping the 32 bit stuff that makes everything work currently. They don't make older games anymore.

As I understand, the problem is more than just the legacy games; If it were just an issue of legacy 32bit native applications, frozen library versions might suffice – though I'm not adept enough with Linux to check that statement.

The major issue seems to be that Wine/Proton need 32bit libraries to provide compatibility with Windows software, and they need updated versions of those libraries in order to continue to improve:

jre-phoenix, at discourse.ubuntu.com (link)Wine heavily relies on i386. Not only for legacy 32-bit software, but also “almost all” 64-bit software uses a 32-bit installer.[1] “It’s practically impossible to implement 32-bit on top of 64-bit”, so that you wouldn’t need i386 at all.[2]. So although Wine will still be available in the Ubuntu archive on amd64, it’ll be basically useless.

To support current features in new Wine releases you need recent versions of a few libraries (e.g. faudio, vulkan-loader and vkd3d, and those require other recent stuff like sdl2, …).[3] If you use our Debian packages also current versions of unicode-data and khronos-api. 18.04 is already too old to fully support current Wine with (all) current features. [...]
mirv 26 June 2019 at 9:03 am UTC
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Jaromir
NanobangIoT: More ways to be hacked, more ways to be spied on. Socio-techno dross. Also pretty unrelated to the article at hand---not as unrelated as, say EMF sickness, but pretty fuckin' unrelated all the same.
It is predicted that 5G (= EMF) will benefit IoT innovation. So the IoT revolution in which Ubuntu is an important player will make living organisms (and people) sicker by increasing the EMF radiation.

This seems to me to contradict the Ubuntu philosophy:

"You cannot only be human and when you have this characteristic - Ubuntu - you are known for your generosity. We think of ourselves too often, because only individuals, separated from each other, while you are connected and what you do affect the entire world. When you do it right, it spreads; it's for all humanity. "

The link between Ubuntu Linux and EMF disease is therefore 5G technology that plays a central role in both cases.

Whatever you're smoking, I suggest you stop.

I work with radio communications, and have done so across multiple frequency bands. Standing on a slab of granite is more dangerous. Various foods that you eat (and whatever it is that you smoke) are more dangerous not only to yourself, but those around you.
Klaus 26 June 2019 at 9:10 am UTC
Regarding communication issues: It seems from some comments like there WAS miscommunication about these plans over the last years, with important parties like Wine and Valve not commenting adequately on the ideas. But if they had realized the importance of 32bit libraries, they probably wouldn't have waited for Valve/Wine to provide feedback on mailing lists, but would likely have directly requested feedback.

To be that sounds like a case of "mutually unclear communication". Valve or Wine-devs could have commented then, but it is easy to miss semi-internal communication or its sigificance, when no official inquiries are made. If important parties don't comment, you can't just assume they have read and understood your plans, yet if you never assume implicit agreement, you'd never get anything done.
Klaus 26 June 2019 at 9:15 am UTC
mirv
Jaromir
NanobangIoT: More ways to be hacked, more ways to be spied on. Socio-techno dross. Also pretty unrelated to the article at hand---not as unrelated as, say EMF sickness, but pretty fuckin' unrelated all the same.
It is predicted that 5G (= EMF) will benefit IoT innovation. So the IoT revolution in which Ubuntu is an important player will make living organisms (and people) sicker by increasing the EMF radiation.

This seems to me to contradict the Ubuntu philosophy:

"You cannot only be human and when you have this characteristic - Ubuntu - you are known for your generosity. We think of ourselves too often, because only individuals, separated from each other, while you are connected and what you do affect the entire world. When you do it right, it spreads; it's for all humanity. "

The link between Ubuntu Linux and EMF disease is therefore 5G technology that plays a central role in both cases.

Whatever you're smoking, I suggest you stop.

I work with radio communications, and have done so across multiple frequency bands. Standing on a slab of granite is more dangerous. Various foods that you eat (and whatever it is that you smoke) are more dangerous not only to yourself, but those around you.

Though I agree with the factual part of the statement, I don't think that insults will help the discussion. I mean, the discussion shouldn't be necessary anymore at this point, but the same people that spread misinformation are also very good at making people feel right about it, and insults only help them.
Dedale 26 June 2019 at 9:31 am UTC
IMHO, interacting with cranks is extremely unlikely to yield any sort of productive outcome. If you try to reason with them they will simply shower you bogus arguments that support their views. It demands time and effort to build a documented argument while there is a practically unlimited supply of ready to use bovine manure.

Sometimes what you can do is warn the public that what they just read or read is false. But even that is hazardous.
Jaromir 26 June 2019 at 10:55 am UTC
mirvWhatever you're smoking, I suggest you stop.

I work with radio communications, and have done so across multiple frequency bands. Standing on a slab of granite is more dangerous. Various foods that you eat (and whatever it is that you smoke) are more dangerous not only to yourself, but those around you.
This is my last post on the subject because I do not intend to derail the discussion about 32bit support. I just wanted to indicate the health implications of the IoT sector where Ubuntu Linux is now a central player. The type of people who continue to deny the many clear evidence will always be there. Just as the Trump administration buries studies that prove the effects of climate change.

As I mentioned earlier, one of the problems with EMF radiation is the fact that it breaks the synchronization of living organisms with the schumann frequency. And this is an undeniable fact that has serious consequences.

In 1960 a renowned researcher from the Max Planck Institute in Germany, Rutger Wever extended the studies on Schumann frequency and conducted an experiment with university students that volunteered to have their health state evaluated. The students had to spend four weeks in an underground bunker built for this experiment, totally isolated from the Schumann resonance. What happened during those weeks was impressive. All the students began to feel sick, suffer severe headaches, had strange emotions and felt exhausted. When the researcher Rutger Wever introduced in the bunker (without warning the students) the Schumann frequency generator, each participant experienced relief of their condition and quickly recovered.

But desynchronisation with the Schumann frequency isn't the only severe problem with EMF. The exposure to electromagnetic pollution leads to gradual and accentuated health deterioration by weakening the immune system. Consequently, some of the health problems that occur are:

Migraine
Blurred vision
Skin diseases
Depression
Hormonal disorders
Emotional disturbances
Poor memory
Cancer
Leukemia
mirv 26 June 2019 at 11:08 am UTC
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Jaromir
mirvWhatever you're smoking, I suggest you stop.

I work with radio communications, and have done so across multiple frequency bands. Standing on a slab of granite is more dangerous. Various foods that you eat (and whatever it is that you smoke) are more dangerous not only to yourself, but those around you.
This is my last post on the subject because I do not intend to derail the discussion about 32bit support. I just wanted to indicate the health implications of the IoT sector where Ubuntu Linux is now a central player. The type of people who continue to deny the many clear evidence will always be there. Just as the Trump administration buries studies that prove the effects of climate change.

As I mentioned earlier, one of the problems with EMF radiation is the fact that it breaks the synchronization of living organisms with the schumann frequency. And this is an undeniable fact that has serious consequences.

In 1960 a renowned researcher from the Max Planck Institute in Germany, Rutger Wever extended the studies on Schumann frequency and conducted an experiment with university students that volunteered to have their health state evaluated. The students had to spend four weeks in an underground bunker built for this experiment, totally isolated from the Schumann resonance. What happened during those weeks was impressive. All the students began to feel sick, suffer severe headaches, had strange emotions and felt exhausted. When the researcher Rutger Wever introduced in the bunker (without warning the students) the Schumann frequency generator, each participant experienced relief of their condition and quickly recovered.

But desynchronisation with the Schumann frequency isn't the only severe problem with EMF. The exposure to electromagnetic pollution leads to gradual and accentuated health deterioration by weakening the immune system. Consequently, some of the health problems that occur are:

Migraine
Blurred vision
Skin diseases
Depression
Hormonal disorders
Emotional disturbances
Poor memory
Cancer
Leukemia

I formally request that you please stop with this....whatever it is that you're trying to spout. Nothing you're writing is making any sense - it's like you're stringing words together in an attempt to sound knowledgeable.
Schumann _resonancy_ is entirely unrelated to what you've said. Your "fact" is utterly wrong.
Wever's experimentation, if I remember rightly (....tappity tap tap....yep, I do remember rightly) is to do with essentially day/night cycles and perception of time (basically lock people up and remove anything they might use to mark the passage of time).

....and trying to tie all that up to Canonical removing 32bit libs is...uh...odd, to say the least. I honestly think you're part of some Russian disinformation campaign, but why you'd waste your time on a GNU/Linux gaming site I've no idea.
qptain Nemo 26 June 2019 at 12:07 pm UTC
Surely if humans were this sensitive to EMF, every time there is a sun flare people would drop dead in droves.
jasonm 26 June 2019 at 12:11 pm UTC
Purple Library Guy
jasonm
TobiSGD
jasonmI can see why they want to remove 32 bit libs because it's a ton of work.
But a ton of work for whom? They still get the majority of their packages directly from Debian, throwing a patch on one or the other package and just compile. If Debian still supports newer versions of 32 bit libraries, how much work is there really to be done for canonical?

How much work is it to deal with many many thousands of packages and actually make a new release every 6 months? If I need to explain to you why there is a lot of work to do this the conversation is kinda already over I'm sad to say. Sure they get packages from Debian. There is a lot of work maintaining and supporting them as a whole. If you don't think keeping 32 bit is a lot of work I think you're somewhat out of touch. Sure, it's easier than if they had to make every single package themselves, but that doesn't mean it's not complex to keep everything working smoothly and supporting it.
Are we talking about two different things again? Many thousands sounds rather like you're talking about releasing the whole distro on 32-bit, so as to be usable on 32-bit hardware. But after this many pages of discussion, I thought it was rather clear that's not what we're talking about and not something most people had a problem with.
Do all the 32-bit games etc. really depend on thousands of libraries? I'm prepared to be told yes, it just seems kind of odd.

Not really sure how many to be quite honest with you. What I do know is I hardly use 32-bit apps and I have 193 32 bit packages installed. My position is that it takes a lot of work to maintain the 32-bit arch and I understand why they want to remove it. At some point, we have to cut our losses with the 32-bit arch. It's going to be a bumpy road and we will have a lot of hurdles to jump. Now might not be the time to do it, but it's coming.
Nanobang 26 June 2019 at 1:47 pm UTC
Jaromir
NanobangIoT: More ways to be hacked, more ways to be spied on. Socio-techno dross. Also pretty unrelated to the article at hand---not as unrelated as, say EMF sickness, but pretty fuckin' unrelated all the same.
It is predicted that 5G (= EMF) will benefit IoT innovation. So the IoT revolution in which Ubuntu is an important player will make living organisms (and people) sicker by increasing the EMF radiation.

This seems to me to contradict the Ubuntu philosophy:

"You cannot only be human and when you have this characteristic - Ubuntu - you are known for your generosity. We think of ourselves too often, because only individuals, separated from each other, while you are connected and what you do affect the entire world. When you do it right, it spreads; it's for all humanity. "

The link between Ubuntu Linux and EMF disease is therefore 5G technology that plays a central role in both cases.



I admire the passion you and others have about this topic. I certainly wasn't arguing against you, merely saying---albeit in a glib, somewhat snarky way (sorry)---that the topic of Ubuntu/IoT/EMF---however important it may or may be---really has no place in a discussion of an article about Ubuntu's 32 bit support.

Please, let me explain. 5g may play a central role in Ubuntu Linux and EMF disease, as you say, and I'm not saying it doesn't nor that it is or isn't an important issue. I'm saying that it's an issue that's considered separate from what this article is about.

This article is about Ubuntu's most recent position on 32 bit support and NOT anything else about Ubuntu. We'd say that the topic of the article (the article is about) is this particular, specific aspect of Ubuntu (32 bit support) and not Ubuntu in general nor any other aspect of Ubuntu.

Talking about Ubuntu's involvement with IoT (and subsequently EMF) is to discuss Ubuntu---yes---but because it's not about 32 bit support, it's not about the same topic, You see what I'm saying? IoT/EMF isn't what the article is about. We'd say IoT is a different, particular, and specific aspect of Ubuntu.---and so we'd say it's a different topic.

I'm trying to explain this to you on the off chance you are not a troll but simply don't understand why I'm saying IoT/EMF are off topic. I hope I helped.
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