As you might have heard by now, Canonical has made the decision to drop 32bit support from Ubuntu 19.10 onwards.
Writing on the mailing list, as well as this post on Ubuntu's Community Hub, Canonical gave a reminder that the decision isn't coming without warning. It was proposed last year and it was followed up with another post detailing a final decision to be made in the middle of 2019. So here we are, the decision seems to have been made.
The problem isn't hardware, as likely around 99% of people nowadays have a 64bit capable computer. Going by our own statistics, from what 2,254 users told us only 4 are using a 32bit Linux distribution. The issue then, is mainly software and libraries needed to actually run 32bit applications. This is where it sounds like there's going to be plenty of teething issues, with a number of people not too happy about the decision.
Steam, for example, is one such application along with plenty of 32bit games that will likely never get updated, although Canonical did say they're "in discussions" with Valve about it. There's also GOG, Humble Store and itch.io which all provide a number of direct-download 32bit games, which do not supply the required 32bit libraries to run. It doesn't sound like they have been given any thought (at least they haven't been mentioned).
Another of the major problems being Wine, with a discussion now happening on their mailing list. The discussion doesn't seem to be too positive, with developer Henri Verbeet even saying "I think not building packages for Ubuntu 19.10 would be the only practical option.", although Andrew Eikum's idea of using the Steam Runtime could be an interesting way around it.
What are your thoughts?
Quoting: ShmerlHere's my thoughts on the actual change;Quoting: slapinDon't panic.
Be calm, pick a better distro ;) Seriously, their proposed solutions are far from optimal.
They are spending no extra development to get the 32bit packages on their 64bit system, since Debian does all the work, and they just fork / rebuild the packages.
They are doing this only to try to promote their own Snap package management, because no one really wants to use it, and more and more projects are moving to flatpak, or just releasing AppImages (I know Cura does this, I do wish the maintainer of the debian package would update it...)
Granted, it's my understanding that snap is friendlier to commercial packages, vs flatpak is more for running newer / sandboxed open source software. I personally stay away from snap, because it seems about as clean as random android app stores.
Quoting: slaapliedjeQuoting: ShmerlIsn't it already mostly in Debian proper? Besides maybe the plymouth theme / wallpapers.Quoting: MohandevirValve could up their game and offer a Steamos-Desktop Edition. It's already Debian based and includes a Gnome DE... Both hands on the steering wheel.
Or they can just open source their UI and add it to Debian proper ;)
I'm a huge supporter of Debian as a desktop / server, whatever.
It really goes like this, use stable with backports (namely kernel / nvidia driver, if you have such hardware, etc.) with the debian-multimedia repo, and you're pretty much set. Then you can wait about a year into stable, then switch to testing, since their release cycles seem to be about every 2 years. Just note that testing gets a bit unstable right after a release, and switch to stable at that point so the couple months of all the new crap coming from experimental and unstable don't break your system.
Coming from someone who has used it since the late 90s :)
Thing is the desktop sessionn is separate from the BPM session that automatically launches . (the BPM mode uses it's own compositor , and the X server is slightly differently configured ) .
So yeah it is mostly Debian based but thing is they customized it a looot .
As far as I am concerned I guess I'll stick with 18.04 for a while once I upgrade to it (and that already brings some problems Devil Daggers being one of them )
Quoting: slaapliedjeThey are doing this only to try to promote their own Snap package management, because no one really wants to use it, and more and more projects are moving to flatpak, or just releasing AppImages (I know Cura does this, I do wish the maintainer of the debian package would update it...)
Granted, it's my understanding that snap is friendlier to commercial packages, vs flatpak is more for running newer / sandboxed open source software. I personally stay away from snap, because it seems about as clean as random android app stores.
I think Flatpak overall has wider backing, and is viewed is a lightweight sandboxing solution. When it comes to such bundling, I usually see Flatpak discussed, almost never Snap. And I doubt their Snap push will help prevent massive migration of gamers from Ubuntu. Canonical really didn't handle this well.
Last edited by Shmerl on 21 June 2019 at 2:18 am UTC
in the mean time, you can run windows 1.0 applications on windows 10...
what is the point of the system being open source, if we cant even run the apps we want? where is the freedom on it?
yes i can use other distro, but what if all the major ones does the same (the ones which are base for the rest) i'm not planning to support my self.
windows never looked so good.
Last edited by elmapul on 21 June 2019 at 2:37 am UTC
Is quite a stupid move in the end that could negatively affect new Linux users...
Quoting: ShmerlYup, everyone adopted flatpak except Ubuntu. This is going to end up like Mir, Unity, Upstart, etc. Where they'll bend to the popular vote after a release or two. After they lose all their users to other distributions.Quoting: slaapliedjeThey are doing this only to try to promote their own Snap package management, because no one really wants to use it, and more and more projects are moving to flatpak, or just releasing AppImages (I know Cura does this, I do wish the maintainer of the debian package would update it...)
Granted, it's my understanding that snap is friendlier to commercial packages, vs flatpak is more for running newer / sandboxed open source software. I personally stay away from snap, because it seems about as clean as random android app stores.
I think Flatpak overall has wider backing, and is viewed is a lightweight sandboxing solution. When it comes to such bundling, I usually see Flatpak discussed, almost never Snap. And I doubt their Snap push will help prevent massive migration of gamers from Ubuntu. Canonical really didn't handle this well.
The thing I just don't get... they base off Debian, and I don't see Debian making any moves to drop support for 32bit libraries, hell they still support i386 distributions when most have dropped that.
https://release.debian.org/buster/arch_qualify.html
Hell there is still a Debian fork for m68k.
Quoting: elmapul" The issue then, is mainly software and libraries needed to actually run 32bit applications. This is where it sounds like there's going to be plenty of teething issues, with a number of people not too happy about the decision.'Ha, that's a STRONG maybe for running older Windows stuff in Windows 10. I mean I've seen many older applications run better with Wine than in Windows 10.
in the mean time, you can run windows 1.0 applications on windows 10...
what is the point of the system being open source, if we cant even run the apps we want? where is the freedom on it?
yes i can use other distro, but what if all the major ones does the same (the ones which are base for the rest) i'm not planning to support my self.
windows never looked so good.
But the point here is, imagine if Windows 10 dropped 32bit support. I'd guess roughly 80% of things would stop working entirely. In the Windows world 64bit native applications were never that wide spread.
Quoting: chancho_zombieQuoting: sprocketI wouldn't move to an Ubuntu-based derivative like Mint, though, because the decisions that affect Ubuntu will affect those derivatives.
I have Mint installed on a netbook :><::><:
if they wanted they could provide a third party repo on opensuse OBS, it's really easy. I'm pretty sure if Ubuntu drops all 32bit libs all together someone will stand up and maintain a 3rd party repo.
straight from the mailing list:
"The immediate question for me is whether to even bother trying to package Wine for Ubuntu 19.10 and up. The suggestion from Ubuntu is to use the 32 bit libraries from 18.04, which will be supported until 2023. It's theoretically possible for me to build the 32 bit side on the OBS using the libraries from 18.04, but that would lead to a mismatch in library versions the 32 and 64 bit sides were built against. Apt requires the i386 and amd64 versions of packages match or it will refuse to install them, so unless that changes, users of 19.10 and up will be unable to install the 32 bit libraries they need to run Wine, unless they downgrade a significant part of their system to the 18.04 versions."
Ubuntu more and more is reminding me of Apple or Microsoft, in that they have one way of doing things, and you're forced to do it their way. (And because they're the big market share, other smaller distros are forced to go that route, as well.) Slackware gets a bum rap, but it doesn't stand in your way at all. Want to use systemd? You can put it in, if you so choose and are handy at rebuilding things. Want to use Wayland or Gnome? There are packages for it. Don't want to use pulseaudio? OK. PAM? We don't talk about PAM. ;)
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