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As an unintentional side effect of Valve's latest sales event, the Steam Grand Prix, it seems a lot of users have begun cleaning out their Steam Wishlists.

Why? Well, it gives you the chance to win an item from your Steam Wishlist but only from the top three slots, it's not random. Valve's rules are pretty clear on how it all works but it still seems to have caused a lot of wishlist deletions. Removing games doesn't actually improve your chances, but likely will affect your future purchases of games you're no longer following as a result of it.

I don't think it's just that though, it's likely also a result of more people also now remembering that they've wishlisted a ton of games, some they're not likely to buy but either way it's not good news for smaller developers.

As an example of this, Raymond Doerr developer of Rise to Ruins (an awesome indie city-builder) shared this image on Twitter to show just how many are being removed:

You can obviously see how clear it is and that it started around the Summer Sale. They're not alone in this, tons of indie developers are seeing the exact same thing, my Twitter feed is absolutely full of developers talking about it over the last few days, some seem quite concerned by it. From what I've seen, it's quite normal to see a drop around these events but nothing like it is currently. Steam Wishlists can be one of the deciding factors on whether an upcoming game will see many sales and whether an already released game will continue to live on. When a lot of indie developers are already struggling, this is obviously not great.

Sounds like for many indie developers, the Steam sale hasn't been too kind to them with many seeing quite a drop compared to previous sales too. I spoke personally with David Stark, developer of Airships: Conquer the Skies, who said:

Looking at the stats for the first day of the sale of my game, Airships: Conquer the Skies, I noticed that for every copy sold, around three other people simply deleted the game from their wishlist. Clearly, some players are just taking the opportunity to tidy up their wishlists, but talking to other devs and players on Twitter, it seems that at least people are misunderstanding how the Grand Prix sale promotion works, and are deleting all but the most expensive games from their lists, in the hope of reaping the maximum reward. I really don't think this was Valve's intent, but it's unfortunate, especially as long-tail sales for games really rely on wishlists.

I also spoke with Tom Vian of SFB Games, developer of titles like Detective Grimoire and Haunt the House: Terrortown who allowed me to share their image too showing the same thing for their titles:

Certainly seems like something awry here.

Going further into it, J. Kyle Pittman, co-founder of Minor Key Games (Slayer Shock, Eldritch, Super Win The Game + more) also shared this image:

When I asked Pittman how that compared to previous years, keeping in mind they're another developer that's been through many years of sales, they said:

Previous summer sales have looked similar to the one from May. Some deletions but mostly purchases and additions. Last year’s holiday sale was about 50/50. This is the first time in history that deletions have exceeded purchases and additions by a wide margin.

Another who didn't want to be named, who I've followed for multiple years also said "I've never seen anything like it, we rely on Wishlists for so many reasons, it's a disaster". Plenty more like this, this one, also this one and so on. That's not many examples, sure, but keep in mind I follow thousands of developers (and getting permission to quote takes a long time in some cases) and not a single one has said anything good about what's happening. Every image I've seen, is showing the same issue—oh dear.

Another factor in all this, is that more people might possibly be heading over to the Epic Games Store. I know, I know, I've mentioned Epic Games and it's likely to cause a riot somewhere but stick with me a moment. Epic Games also only recently kicked off their own Mega Sale, so the timing of that likely hasn't helped things. Same with GOG and Humble Store, but Epic Games likely have a bigger pull than those two put together.

Tough times to be an indie game developer indeed. Being discovered on Steam seems like it's getting a lot tougher as time goes on, as thousands more are released on Steam each year, which may end up pushing out a lot of smaller developers. There's also been a ton of talk about Steam changing their algorithms, which has also reduced a lot of traffic to some developers.

Not only that, I've also seen numerous developers post about how Steam has been emailing wishlist sale notifications to a vastly smaller percentage of users than usual, in some cases around only 10% of emails have gone out compared to previous years.

Something to remember though, is that it's not Valve's job to market every game possible. Realistically, that's the job of the developer and publisher, Valve just provide the store and the tools to help a little along the way. However, when some of these tools start to work against them (even when unintentional) it's obviously not good.

Seems like developers are going to have to get a lot more creative somehow in pushing people towards their Steam pages. If any of it makes you think and you want to help, then perhaps next time you enjoy a game putting up a little review on Steam will help. Oh, and stop removing games from your wishlist when you don't need to.

Note: After publishing, Valve put out a post to clarify some elements of the game. They also clarified in that post, that you don't need to remove items. Along with this PSA on Twitter, it's clear Valve now knows it caused an issue.

Article was updated after publishing with more info.

Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Tags: Misc, Steam
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48 comments
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Salvatos Jun 27, 2019
Quoting: RanceJusticeI can understand some of the concerns here, but I have to ask - don't people just "reorder" their list? (...) I don't see the point of deletions really in regards to the Steam sale?
It's not that people have to prune their lists to get the (potential) free game they want, it's that they think they do. This sale event is needlessly complicated and most people aren't going to read the actual rules page. For something involving so many people from so many different backgrounds (including linguistically), Valve really should have embraced Keep It Simple Stupid.
fabertawe Jun 27, 2019
I had a quick look at the sale and thought "this is too convoluted, I can't be arsed"!

Also, unless I'm missing something, what's with the big panic about lots of people deleting stuff from their wishlists? I delete games all the time just to keep it to a manageable level, currently about 30 games. People don't delete games they plan to buy.

Edit: Also, in regards to the peeps deleting whole wishlists in the wrong belief they need to have just three games in the list for a chance to win them - surely they'll just add back the ones they want after the sale.


Last edited by fabertawe on 27 June 2019 at 4:36 pm UTC
ElectricPrism Jun 27, 2019
Historically, I casually add games to my wishlist and when a sale comes I go through it with a fine tooth comb and order from most interested to least interested.

Then I scan from top to bottom based on % off and I buy based on savings or high desirability.

Lately though I have all these windows games in my list to show devs I am waiting for support and strongly dont want to play on Proton; eg: Final Fantasy 3,4,5,6,7,9,10.

Maybe I am being too picky and should compromize a little more with proton I just syrongly prefer native when money is exchanged so natives have a higher probability of getting my dollar.
cprn Jun 27, 2019
People seem to miss the point.

  • wishlist entries are a valuable insight for developers and publishers

  • interested parties just lost some of that insight because Valve made people think they need to remove all entries but top 3

  • even when you don't end up buying the game you'll get the memo when it's released / discounted / etc if you have it on your wishlist

  • hence, above mentioned parties also lost some of the potential audience for their marketing / advertisement

  • even if you don't want to buy the game now, the way marketing works is to convince you to change your mind on a split second you receive an ad

  • one of the main rules of marketing is not to play with statistics

  • Valve accidentally incentivized playing with the statistical tool

  • it's not the first time Valve fucked up by making what looks like a beginner marketing mistake, we all remember Steam machines

  • no, many people didn't just remove the games they weren't interested in or reordered their wishlist, a noticable percentage removed everything but 3 positions

  • charts show how noticeable that percentage was, enough for some publishers to notice

  • we still don't know if the line covering wishlist removals includes wishlist orders

  • everything and nothing in marketing works or can be tested because open market is not a closed environment, hence, no scientific proofs are possible

  • people like to believe in stuff that can't be proved, it's kind of religion

  • somebody at Valve, consciously or not, spat in the faces of the marketing gods



I can't put it more bluntly. People believe a line on a chart raises their sales, hence, an entity that destroys this line will be hated.
Salvatos Jun 27, 2019
Quoting: fabertaweEdit: Also, in regards to the peeps deleting whole wishlists in the wrong belief they need to have just three games in the list for a chance to win them - surely they'll just add back the ones they want after the sale.
I think there can be a valid concern that some indie games will be forgotten when that time comes, especially for people with large lists or for games that were wishlisted a while ago and somewhat forgotten. Even if those were games that were less likely to be bought to begin with, cprn raises a valid point when it comes to wishlist discount notifications acting as publicity.
Liam Dawe Jun 27, 2019
Quoting: Patola
Quoting: liamdaweI'll just repeat myself since it's not sinking in..

This has not happened with any other sale to this level. It's a result of the gamification of the wishlist system with people not quite understanding it.

What is "this"? People removing items from their wishlist? But if they were not going to buy the game anyway, it's a moot point, statistically it would also cause an increase in the effect of wishlist, e.g. instead of a 50% chance of people buying stuff on their wishlist, now it would be 60%.

Quoting: liamdaweDo a search for "steam wishlist" and things like that on Twitter and spot all the fires ;)
I don't doubt it, that's why I said it might be a collective perception issue. I can't do the search from where I stand now but I'll do it in the evening, to see if the related comments dismiss my impression.

And, again, I think we're too early in the sales to tell the trends...

Although I will admit something, the "racing" idea does not seem nearly as effective as the last sale "Saliens" game in terms of engagement. It's too complex and the "team" mechanics and randomness of the winners makes you feel you're not in control, so why would you invest on it?
We're talking about developers who have been through 5+ years of various season Steam sales, quite a few of those I've spoken to having their games on Steam for even longer and they've all said close to exactly the same, that there's usually a small spike but this is many times greater. If you think that's a "collective perception issue", I just think you're not listening.

Want to see more?
https://twitter.com/dhindes/status/1144227282061369344
https://twitter.com/tobiasgrf/status/1144290726550921216
https://twitter.com/danthat/status/1144211434454355968
https://twitter.com/puppygames/status/1144239386059558912
https://twitter.com/mrhelmut/status/1144210454186795010
https://twitter.com/Mi_Clos/status/1144214192288935937
https://twitter.com/Olima/status/1144197551996002306
https://twitter.com/PirateHearts/status/1144295014173990912
https://twitter.com/LeSaucierKim/status/1144358962281816065?s=19
https://twitter.com/colorfiction/status/1144357088841359365?s=19

I can keep going for quite a while on this ;)

There's also the issue of wishlist emails also seeing a huge drop in being sent out:
https://twitter.com/GreyAlien/status/1144251143356329987/photo/1
https://twitter.com/RaymondDoerr/status/1144243533513203712

Quoting: Salvatos
Quoting: fabertaweEdit: Also, in regards to the peeps deleting whole wishlists in the wrong belief they need to have just three games in the list for a chance to win them - surely they'll just add back the ones they want after the sale.
I think there can be a valid concern that some indie games will be forgotten when that time comes, especially for people with large lists or for games that were wishlisted a while ago and somewhat forgotten. Even if those were games that were less likely to be bought to begin with, cprn raises a valid point when it comes to wishlist discount notifications acting as publicity.
Which is why it's also concerning for developers to be seeing lower than usual email notifications being sent out too.


Last edited by Liam Dawe on 27 June 2019 at 11:25 pm UTC
Tchey Jun 27, 2019
Everytime there is a game on sale, i keep or remove it from wishlist, if it's not a big cut, or if i find out i don't want it anymore, or a game that was Windows with a "maybe Linux later"... Often, "later" is way too late anyway, so good bye.

I usually have 200-300 games on wishlist, only because i find it easier to follow them.
namiko Jun 27, 2019
I didn't really get the way the recent sale works when gifting you games off of your own Wishlist, either.

I gathered that the items near the top of my Wishlist would get prioritized for a giveaway, so I reordered things so that I had a solid top 20, and a titanium top 10.

If gamers are ridiculously strict min-maxers (and many are), then they wouldn't hesitate to kill their entire Wishlist for just the chance of getting the 3 most expensive titles.

I'm not like that, I prefer indies for story, unique mechanics and lack of money-grubbing DLC or microtransactions (usually). But there's a lot of "keeping up with your friends" that most (particularly young) gamers want to do. They "NEED" the latest game, and the new, cool thing is most often an expensive AAA, not an indie cult-hit.

Valve really should have worded things better for this event. If it's already confusing in English, I'd hate to see what it's like in Italian or Mandarin. :/
Salvatos Jun 27, 2019
They do seem to have reworded things a bit and updated the layout of the page. No announcement that I can see, though.
eldaking Jun 27, 2019
Regarding "people wouldn't buy those anyway": having a game on your wishlist is free marketing for developers. You see that game every time you go into the wishlist (while you might not see it otherwise), get informed about sales and releases, and they get some data out of it. This is the equivalent of many people hitting the "ignore" button on the store: maybe they wouldn't all buy, but there is a lot less people seeing your game, so people that could be convinced won't see it anymore. For big games that people are sure to see anyway, or remember later, no big deal; for small games, this means a lot. People that added a game to the wishlist are already a bit more likely to buy the game, so the idea that none of the people that removed the games was ever going to buy any of them is a bit unlikely. And this is anomalous.

That said, I kind of like this sale. I think that rewarding people for playing some games instead of just for buying games (that end up never being played) or for playing a clicker is better. I think that the removal of trading cards and the economy involved is actually good - microtransactions with random drops of collectibles aren't the best thing for a store. Gifting games instead is a better solution, even if it is a lottery.

The team competition aspect could certainly be improved (but it is not horrible, just meaningless). The idea of having teams is intriguing, but in the end there is so little interaction with other people (and I'm not sure I'd like more) that it hardly matters. I think it would work better if instead they took games of the same genre and similar playerbases and put them to compete, for example.
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