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PayPalIt seems Valve and five publishers have attracted the attention of the EU, as they claim they're breaching EU competition rules. In particular, what the EU say they're doing goes against the "Regulation 2018/302" introduced on December 3rd last year.
The statement from the European Commission, available here, mentions that they've sent Statements of Objections to Valve and Bandai Namco, Capcom, Focus Home, Koch Media and ZeniMax.
The main concerns from the EU are these:
- Valve and the five PC video game publishers agreed, in breach of EU antitrust rules, to use geo-blocked activation keys to prevent cross-border sales, including in response to unsolicited consumer requests (so-called “passive sales”) of PC video games from several Member States (i.e. Czechia, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, and in some cases Romania). This may have prevented consumers from buying cheaper games available in other Member States.
- Bandai Namco, Focus Home, Koch Media and ZeniMax, broke EU antitrust rules by including contractual export restrictions in their agreements with a number of distributors other than Valve. These distributors were prevented from selling the relevant PC video games outside the allocated territories, which could cover one or more Member States. These practices may have prevented consumers from purchasing and playing PC video games sold by these distributors either on physical media, such as DVDs or through downloads.
Valve just sent out a statement, here's what they said in full for those interested:
Earlier today, the European Commission ("EC") sent Statements of Objections ("SO") to Valve and five publishers in an investigation that it started in 2013. The EC alleges that the five publishers entered into agreements with their distributors that included geo-blocking provisions for PC games sold by the distributors, and that separately Valve entered into agreements with the same publishers that prevented consumers in the European Economic Area ("EEA") from purchasing PC games because of their location.
However, the EC's charges do not relate to the sale of PC games on Steam - Valve's PC gaming service. Instead the EC alleges that Valve enabled geo-blocking by providing Steam activation keys and - upon the publishers' request - locking those keys to particular territories ("region locks") within the EEA. Such keys allow a customer to activate and play a game on Steam when the user has purchased it from a third-party reseller. Valve provides Steam activation keys free of charge and does not receive any share of the purchase price when a game is sold by third-party resellers (such as a retailer or other online store).
The region locks only applied to a small number of game titles. Approximately just 3% of all games using Steam (and none of Valve's own games) at the time were subject to the contested region locks in the EEA. Valve believes that the EC's extension of liability to a platform provider in these circumstances is not supported by applicable law. Nonetheless, because of the EC's concerns, Valve actually turned off region locks within the EEA starting in 2015, unless those region locks were necessary for local legal requirements (such as German content laws) or geographic limits on where the Steam partner is licensed to distribute a game. The elimination of region locks will also mean that publishers will likely raise prices in less affluent regions to avoid price arbitrage. There are no costs involved in sending activation keys from one country to another and the activation key is all a user needs to activate and play a PC game.
Basically, the EU wants to prevent stores and publishers from making it so that you can't get your games cheaper if you choose to shop in a different country. It can be a pretty difficult topic, certainly one with a lot of complications. The issue gets complicated, since publishers may want to offer certain countries a cheaper price if their wages are traditionally lower but they might not do that if anyone is able to come along and just pay the cheaper price.
What are your thoughts on this?
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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The comments on this article are closed.
Quoting: Purple Library GuyQuoting: F.UltraThat's the kind of reason denying the EU is, or is very much like, a country did not lead me to certainty about what policy is right for this situation.Quoting: Purple Library GuyQuoting: KithopGeo-blocking is BS, so for once the EU is in the right of it with their demands.But the EU isn't a single country. It does not act fiscally, budgetarily, or in terms of many regulations, like a single country. It does not have EU-wide public pension plans paying the same amount across the region, it does not have EU-wide minimum wage laws, it does not have EU-wide unemployment insurance, it does not have payments moving between wealthier and poorer states to try to equalize their economic situation (if anything the reverse--it has EU-mandated rules redistributing the wealth of poorer states to the banks of richer ones). In the absence of these sorts of fiscal provisions to pull the economy of the region together, the Euro actually tends to broaden economic disparities in the Eurozone by worsening the economies of the poorer states, because it deprives them of a lot of fiscal tools needed more by the poorer states that go with control over one's own currency. Like devaluation to encourage exports, and stuff.
In Canada, the price for a game is the same across the country, whether you're in Ontario or the Yukon (barring GST/PST/HST differences, similar to VAT).
In the US, same deal - it doesn't matter what state you're in, the price of a game is the price of that game.
The article lists some EU member states in the Eurozone and some that aren't - sure, the requirement for currency exchange tends to mean there are winners and losers on the price difference... but isn't the point of the EU the whole 'single market' thing? So set the price of a game in Euro, let non-Eurozone-but-still-EU members buy it for whatever that converts to in their local currency, and otherwise treat the EU as a single 'country'.
I'm not sure of my position on this, but using actual countries as an analogy to the EU is a poor argument for whichever side and as a side effect leads to a misunderstanding of the nature of the EU.
The EU is not a single country but the whole idea behind the EU is to create a single market, and that is the whole crux here. If you sell items in one EU country then you cannot deny the purchaser from reselling that item in another EU country since the whole of EU is one large single market.
This is not about prohibiting Valve from having different prices in different EU countries, this is to prevent geo-locking on cross-border resells, nothing more, nothing less.
What's the confusing part? You cannot have a single market if players can segment said market into sections of their own making. Either you sell to the whole EU as a single market or you don't sell at all.
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Kimyrielle Apr 5, 2019
Quoting: Purple Library Guy[snip]
The EU acts pretty much like a nation already in the sense that it certainly caters only to the interest of its ruling elite. You know...like any other nation. There is not one single nation on Earth not like that. They ALL care only for the 1%. That's really not an argument against the EU. It's an argument for reform and change, and for going to elections and vote these people out.
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Quoting: F.UltraNow you are spreading the myth that EU is undemocratic which is blatantly false.
The EU Comission consists of people assigned by the government of each member state, so by definition fully democratic since they are appointed by the government that we the EU citizens have voted for in our national elections.
The EU Council consists of the heads of state of each member state, so people that we EU citizens vote on in our national elections.
The EU parliament consists of people that we as EU citizens vote on in the EU elections, again fully democratic.
While I agree that the EU is somewhat democratic, that is sadly a gross misrepresentation of the actual very limited democratic process involved :(
The EU commissioners are selected by the commission's president, who in turn is appointed by the governments of the EU countries, basically the heads of states in this case... which may or may not have been voted for. The actually democratically elected parliaments of the member states do not play a role in this at all. However the EU parliament has to agree to the complete team (yes or no, not individuals).
Regarding the council, again representation of governments, not actually elected members of parliament, which is at most a very indirect form of democracy.
And the EU parliament, probably the most democratic of these three, is both largely powerless and also not truly democratic as not every EU citizens vote counts the same in the elections.
Last edited by Julius on 5 April 2019 at 10:18 pm UTC
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Quoting: JuliusQuoting: F.UltraSo the main problem can be that Valve and these 5 companies have colluded to introduce geo-blocking, and not that Valve in itself enforces geo-blocking of activation keys.
Yeah, that is an interesting part of it, but if I understood correctly we are talking about Steam activation keys, so how could they not have discussed with the Valve beforehand? Again, I think this is someone trying to apply rules for physical goods to digital ones, but you are of course right that this conclusion might very well also be the outcome of this EU investigation.
Another possible solution might be to simply limit the number of physical copies that a single person can purchase at a time. If you have to go to the store for each item that you have to resell (and after a few visits the store will of course recognise you and kick you out) then it's hard to sell enough second hand keys to richer countries to really compete with the real retailers in those richer countries.
Or this will simply mean the death of the fake-physical copy altogether, buying your game online on Steam or Epic of GOG with regional pricing is still not prohibited. And why buy the physical copy if you have to download the game anyway.
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[quote=F.Ultra]
Sure? And why could lobbyist e.g. take part of the negotiation of TTIP, but it was a secret for us - the citizens? And whom do I vote, if I do not have the chance to know, what he is doing in my name?
Is this really democracy? IMHO it is more some lobbycracy. Lobbyist have more power in Brüssel then the EU citizens have. That is, for example, a lack of democracy.
And the more these organization are away from control of their citizens, the more democracy looses.
And in my feelings, they also try to hide the facts, which things the parliament people did or do. E.G. if you look at things, that Tendering rules do not apply to Microsoft.
There are a lot of things, where the EU breaks their rules. If you define rules in a kind of democratic process, but you break them again and again - IMHO that is not really democracy.
But perhaps we get to off topic here.
Quoting: Purple Library GuyNow you are spreading the myth that EU is undemocratic which is blatantly false.
Sure? And why could lobbyist e.g. take part of the negotiation of TTIP, but it was a secret for us - the citizens? And whom do I vote, if I do not have the chance to know, what he is doing in my name?
Is this really democracy? IMHO it is more some lobbycracy. Lobbyist have more power in Brüssel then the EU citizens have. That is, for example, a lack of democracy.
And the more these organization are away from control of their citizens, the more democracy looses.
And in my feelings, they also try to hide the facts, which things the parliament people did or do. E.G. if you look at things, that Tendering rules do not apply to Microsoft.
There are a lot of things, where the EU breaks their rules. If you define rules in a kind of democratic process, but you break them again and again - IMHO that is not really democracy.
But perhaps we get to off topic here.
1 Likes, Who?
Quoting: JuliusQuoting: F.UltraNow you are spreading the myth that EU is undemocratic which is blatantly false.
The EU Comission consists of people assigned by the government of each member state, so by definition fully democratic since they are appointed by the government that we the EU citizens have voted for in our national elections.
The EU Council consists of the heads of state of each member state, so people that we EU citizens vote on in our national elections.
The EU parliament consists of people that we as EU citizens vote on in the EU elections, again fully democratic.
While I agree that the EU is somewhat democratic, that is sadly a gross misrepresentation of the actual very limited democratic process involved :(
The EU commissioners are selected by the commission's president, who in turn is appointed by the governments of the EU countries, basically the heads of states in this case... which may or may not have been voted for. The actually democratically elected parliaments of the member states do not play a role in this at all. However the EU parliament has to agree to the complete team (yes or no, not individuals).
Regarding the council, again representation of governments, not actually elected members of parliament, which is at most a indirect form of democracy.
And the EU parliament, probably the most democratic of these three, is both largely powerless and also not truly democratic as not every persons vote counts the same in the elections.
Representative democracy is already how all of the member states operate nationally so if the EU Commission and Council is defined as "somewhat democratic" than the exact same applies to every single democratic country in the world.
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[quote=einherjar]
Not saying that everything is 100% perfect or that things cannot be improved but the EU is just as democratic as any national country. You also do not vote directly for every single person with power in your national election. And those lobby groups are just as active in your national level, e.g when the question regarding Software Patents where voted on Ericsson put high pressure on our Swedish politicians (and Nokia did the same in Finland) to vote for such patents. Lobbying is one ugly mofo but let's be real here and understand that they exists not only on the EU level.
TTIP was also secret in the US and in every single EU member state. And I can guarantee that your country have been involved in secret negotiations with other countries as well.
Last edited by F.Ultra on 5 April 2019 at 10:25 pm UTC
Quoting: F.UltraQuoting: Purple Library GuyNow you are spreading the myth that EU is undemocratic which is blatantly false.
Sure? And why could lobbyist e.g. take part of the negotiation of TTIP, but it was a secret for us - the citizens? And whom do I vote, if I do not have the chance to know, what he is doing in my name?
Is this really democracy? IMHO it is more some lobbycracy. Lobbyist have more power in Brüssel then the EU citizens have. That is, for example, a lack of democracy.
And the more these organization are away from control of their citizens, the more democracy looses.
And in my feelings, they also try to hide the facts, which things the parliament people did or do. E.G. if you look at things, that Tendering rules do not apply to Microsoft.
There are a lot of things, where the EU breaks their rules. If you define rules in a kind of democratic process, but you break them again and again - IMHO that is not really democracy.
But perhaps we get to off topic here.
Not saying that everything is 100% perfect or that things cannot be improved but the EU is just as democratic as any national country. You also do not vote directly for every single person with power in your national election. And those lobby groups are just as active in your national level, e.g when the question regarding Software Patents where voted on Ericsson put high pressure on our Swedish politicians (and Nokia did the same in Finland) to vote for such patents. Lobbying is one ugly mofo but let's be real here and understand that they exists not only on the EU level.
TTIP was also secret in the US and in every single EU member state. And I can guarantee that your country have been involved in secret negotiations with other countries as well.
Last edited by F.Ultra on 5 April 2019 at 10:25 pm UTC
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Quoting: F.UltraQuoting: JuliusQuoting: F.UltraNow you are spreading the myth that EU is undemocratic which is blatantly false.
The EU Comission consists of people assigned by the government of each member state, so by definition fully democratic since they are appointed by the government that we the EU citizens have voted for in our national elections.
The EU Council consists of the heads of state of each member state, so people that we EU citizens vote on in our national elections.
The EU parliament consists of people that we as EU citizens vote on in the EU elections, again fully democratic.
While I agree that the EU is somewhat democratic, that is sadly a gross misrepresentation of the actual very limited democratic process involved :(
The EU commissioners are selected by the commission's president, who in turn is appointed by the governments of the EU countries, basically the heads of states in this case... which may or may not have been voted for. The actually democratically elected parliaments of the member states do not play a role in this at all. However the EU parliament has to agree to the complete team (yes or no, not individuals).
Regarding the council, again representation of governments, not actually elected members of parliament, which is at most a indirect form of democracy.
And the EU parliament, probably the most democratic of these three, is both largely powerless and also not truly democratic as not every persons vote counts the same in the elections.
Representative democracy is already how all of the member states operate nationally so if the EU Commission and Council is defined as "somewhat democratic" than the exact same applies to every single democratic country in the world.
True, but also very much a matter of degree. Switzerland is clearly more democratic than Germany. And Germany is clearly more democratic than the EU. As Germany is already a very indirect democracy, the EU can rightfully be called quite undemocratic (despite not being a totalitarian regime). Edit: In the EU's case that's maybe a bit like Homeopathy... the democracy is diluted to the point of practical non-existence :p
But I disagree with the "EU lobbycracy" statement someone else did... largely the same which happens in the national governments and even more so dirty "EU washing" happens by national lobby driven governments (=pointing the blame to the EU when in fact it is a unpopular but national decision).
Last edited by Julius on 5 April 2019 at 10:35 pm UTC
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Quoting: JuliusQuoting: F.UltraQuoting: JuliusQuoting: F.UltraNow you are spreading the myth that EU is undemocratic which is blatantly false.
The EU Comission consists of people assigned by the government of each member state, so by definition fully democratic since they are appointed by the government that we the EU citizens have voted for in our national elections.
The EU Council consists of the heads of state of each member state, so people that we EU citizens vote on in our national elections.
The EU parliament consists of people that we as EU citizens vote on in the EU elections, again fully democratic.
While I agree that the EU is somewhat democratic, that is sadly a gross misrepresentation of the actual very limited democratic process involved :(
The EU commissioners are selected by the commission's president, who in turn is appointed by the governments of the EU countries, basically the heads of states in this case... which may or may not have been voted for. The actually democratically elected parliaments of the member states do not play a role in this at all. However the EU parliament has to agree to the complete team (yes or no, not individuals).
Regarding the council, again representation of governments, not actually elected members of parliament, which is at most a indirect form of democracy.
And the EU parliament, probably the most democratic of these three, is both largely powerless and also not truly democratic as not every persons vote counts the same in the elections.
Representative democracy is already how all of the member states operate nationally so if the EU Commission and Council is defined as "somewhat democratic" than the exact same applies to every single democratic country in the world.
True, but also very much a matter of degree. Switzerland is clearly more democratic than Germany. And Germany is clearly more democratic than the EU. As Germany is already a very indirect democracy, the EU can rightfully be called quite undemocratic (despite not being a totalitarian regime).
But I disagree with the "EU lobbycracy" statement someone else did... largely the same which happens in the national governments and even more so dirty "EU washing" happens by national lobby driven governments (=pointing the blame to the EU when in fact it is a unpopular but national decision).
Ok Switzerland is a good example of direct democracy, forgot about those crazy swiss :). And I have a very hard time seeing how Germany would be more democratic than the EU, in fact the Germany political system looks quite equal to that of the EU?!
For the rest I think that Three Arrows (who is German) explains it best in his Brexit video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_HdqYCDcVE
Last edited by F.Ultra on 5 April 2019 at 10:36 pm UTC
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Quoting: F.UltraWhat's the confusing part? You cannot have a single market if players can segment said market into sections of their own making. Either you sell to the whole EU as a single market or you don't sell at all.The thing is I don't care how thorough the EU single market is, since I don't have an ideological preference for such things. Sure, the EU is a single market as a matter of fact, and sure, that status is important to many EU bureaucrats. But that isn't a statement about what policy is good for people in the EU. You could perfectly well have policies which violated or attenuated that status but were good policies.
And even if the EU were an actual country that wouldn't preclude the possibility of trade barriers between sub-units; there are trade barriers and "buy local" policies in Canadian provinces and even municipalities. They're not huge, but they're there.
Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 5 April 2019 at 10:37 pm UTC
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