The Witcher 3 is something Linux users have been practically begging to have, but the problem is that it seems it will likely never come to Linux. An ex-Virtual Programming developer has taken to reddit explaining why this may have happened.
I should stress, for our own record here that this is not the official word from Virtual Programming or CD Projekt RED. This is the personal opinion of an ex-VP developer.
Here's the issue: The Linux version of The Witcher 2 was released in a poor state, it had poor performance and just didn't really work well at all. It was later fixed-up and last time I tried it, the performance was absolutely fine for me. The real problem, is the amount of hate that was sent towards the porters Virtual Programming and directly to CD Projekt RED as well. Even I personally saw some of the hate that was sent their way and it was downright idiotic and absolutely uncalled for.
I will absolutely hold my hands up as well, I made mistakes around it since I simply didn't know enough at the time, and to be honest three years ago I was still learning a lot about everything. I later corrected what I said, as I always aim to.
Writing on reddit, this developer said (source):
It seems we may have also seen a port of The Witcher 1 as well, as the developer also said (source):
There's also this post from another user, who said at the time The Witcher 2 released for Linux, CDProjekt apparently lost a fair amount on the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Apparently due to such a big backlash from the community about the initial release quality. I haven't verified that myself, but if true it would certainly make CDProjekt rather against doing another Linux port with anyone.
This is sad, really sad. I hope this makes a few people reconsider their attitude when talking to developer about the performance of ports. Performance can be worked on and fixed, burnt bridges are harder (and sometimes impossible) to fix.
This reminds me of the time the Blizzard President responded to a small petition asking for Linux ports of their games. The response to the petition was really nice to see from such a big company and truthfully the response I fully expected, but the original statement in reply to it from the petition author (now deleted by the author, but captured in my article) was downright childish and idiotic.
Yes problems are annoying, but throwing insults around helps no one and yes it does make us look bad. I get where people are coming from, to an extent, since some games do end up getting left in a terribly broken state for a long time and sometimes forever. However, in this case VP did good and continued working and now, as stated previously, The Witcher 2 seems fine. Their others ports are generally pretty decent too.
I just hope in future that this developer who got a massive amount of hate and CD Projekt RED can look past it somehow, for all the fans of their franchise on Linux.
Note: I personally spoke to this developer about publishing this with their approval, in the hopes that it might get a few people to re-think their initial attitude towards problems in games. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
I should stress, for our own record here that this is not the official word from Virtual Programming or CD Projekt RED. This is the personal opinion of an ex-VP developer.
Here's the issue: The Linux version of The Witcher 2 was released in a poor state, it had poor performance and just didn't really work well at all. It was later fixed-up and last time I tried it, the performance was absolutely fine for me. The real problem, is the amount of hate that was sent towards the porters Virtual Programming and directly to CD Projekt RED as well. Even I personally saw some of the hate that was sent their way and it was downright idiotic and absolutely uncalled for.
I will absolutely hold my hands up as well, I made mistakes around it since I simply didn't know enough at the time, and to be honest three years ago I was still learning a lot about everything. I later corrected what I said, as I always aim to.
Writing on reddit, this developer said (source):
QuoteI agree, things were not right on release... but the vocality of people went way beyond that. It was an all out hate campaign against VP, against CDPR for "lying about the port being native". I attempted to help people out in my own time and got absolutely roasted and abused for it.
The community needs to realise it simply cannot justify this sort of behaviour if they want to convince devs and publishers to support them. There is no excuse.
It seems we may have also seen a port of The Witcher 1 as well, as the developer also said (source):
QuoteThe vitriol was unbelievable. Yes we messed up the performance on release but we put it right. However a huge hate campaign ensued. Both VP and CDPR got lots of vengeful hate mail sent to them. I cannot help but feel this damaged CDPR's view of the Linux platform irrevocably.
They certainly didnt blame us, because they had us work on a Mac port of Witcher 1 to replace the non-functioning Wineskin version. The same port would have ran on Linux too with very little extra work, but they were not interested in releasing it.
There's also this post from another user, who said at the time The Witcher 2 released for Linux, CDProjekt apparently lost a fair amount on the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Apparently due to such a big backlash from the community about the initial release quality. I haven't verified that myself, but if true it would certainly make CDProjekt rather against doing another Linux port with anyone.
This is sad, really sad. I hope this makes a few people reconsider their attitude when talking to developer about the performance of ports. Performance can be worked on and fixed, burnt bridges are harder (and sometimes impossible) to fix.
This reminds me of the time the Blizzard President responded to a small petition asking for Linux ports of their games. The response to the petition was really nice to see from such a big company and truthfully the response I fully expected, but the original statement in reply to it from the petition author (now deleted by the author, but captured in my article) was downright childish and idiotic.
Yes problems are annoying, but throwing insults around helps no one and yes it does make us look bad. I get where people are coming from, to an extent, since some games do end up getting left in a terribly broken state for a long time and sometimes forever. However, in this case VP did good and continued working and now, as stated previously, The Witcher 2 seems fine. Their others ports are generally pretty decent too.
I just hope in future that this developer who got a massive amount of hate and CD Projekt RED can look past it somehow, for all the fans of their franchise on Linux.
Note: I personally spoke to this developer about publishing this with their approval, in the hopes that it might get a few people to re-think their initial attitude towards problems in games. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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The comments on this article are closed.
Quoting: PeciskQuoting: UrgickHere's no place for the drama like this, seriously guys. It's a business. Everyone should be prepared for the stuff like this. I've heard that someone thrown bad fries in the face to McDonald's employer, but that's doesn't mean that Mc will start blocking this person or employer will never serve fries for him again, they will start from the cause, will make fries better. It's really silly behaviour.
Ps: Duck the moralists.
PPs: I'm not one of them.
PPPs: I'm sorry for the bad eng.
Errr no, McDonald most likely will ban serving to that guy, at least locally. There are some red lines of decency you just don't cross, don't matter how disappointed you are as customer.
Anyway, I also believe we are more calmer and more approachable now. There have been some damage from this, obviously. But many loud Linux gamers have realized that giving feedback and just being decent will bring results faster than throwing tantrums. And that's hopefully achievement that sticks.
Well then our Mc are different, but you should've get the point. It's business, and customers are different, they might be drunk, they might be crazy or they might be calm, and blocking entire market because of some WIFI threats is not good. Because probably it's nothing than WIFI threats. And duck yeah, they in USA or Europe, so just go to the police, and you'll be alright
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Quoting: STiATWell, they're right. But it was back the days, and I think we learned to be calmer by now. I remember that I was pretty disappointed that I couldn't play it on my rig (even meeting the specs), but kept my manners. It was one of the first AAA we got and everyone was looking forward to it. It was the first port we got really having huge issues. VP being new, not really native (I still say who cares as long as it works reasonably well), and the release was bad didn't help.
I think a lot of us learned in the past years. I was rather grateful that VP invested a lot of time and effort in fixing up TW2.
I hope VP has learned of their mistake pushing out the release with a performance like that isn't good. And I hope we've learned to work constructively with devs rather than being rude, bad attitude does not help, it gets us nowhere.
Amen here. Certainly VP didn't give up and their ports are now very serviceable - including TW2 current version.
I also believe we have learned a lot from that time.
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QuoteThere's also this post from another user, who said at the time The Witcher 2 released for Linux, CDProjekt apparently lost a fair amount on the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Apparently due to such a big backlash from the community about the initial release quality. I haven't verified that myself, but if true it would certainly make CDProjekt rather against doing another Linux port with anyone.
I find that hard to believe. I mean, I thought the Linux gaming community was insignificantly small, and those who act like that is an even smaller percentage of that group?
Don't companies do business based on market numbers and such? I thought that was the whole point of capitalism / corporatism.
That said, I just find it a bit impractical for people to act like this. The best way to report a bug to just keep it on point, structured and as minimal as possible.
Then again, I kinda do understand why people get angry. I think it's important to see this from the side of the consumers as well. In fact, that is what you should do first. Remember that they bought a product that wasn't up to the quality expected of a game.
I'm not condoning anything, I'm just saying that this wouldn't have happened if the port was relatively solid before it released.
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So I think this is unproffecinal of CDPR and VR, and childish to be honest.
Also add the witcher3 coming to steamOS pre-order sale, thats kinde of illigal to do. Promising a product that later dont get released because of hate from the linux community, I know this was valves banner.
But add the gog support / cdpr support answers, we are working on a linux port, and the longer it took, the less anwers we got from them. Wtf? And we still dont know if its coming, at the moment we are just expecting it not to be out because of the silent treatment, is there a women in charge maybe?
Sry that was a joke xD.
BUT if this is true, what I read in the article, Im not okey with, its childish and unproffecianal.
This is a big gaming company, imagen WB, pixar or any other company, stopt selling or creating something you could pre order just becaue of hate or someone got offended? Imagen if you pre-ordered a car, factory new. But later they stopt, because some customers complained or hated to mutch on the product and somone at the car company got offended. WTF!?
Last edited by Zelox on 5 July 2017 at 11:21 am UTC
Also add the witcher3 coming to steamOS pre-order sale, thats kinde of illigal to do. Promising a product that later dont get released because of hate from the linux community, I know this was valves banner.
But add the gog support / cdpr support answers, we are working on a linux port, and the longer it took, the less anwers we got from them. Wtf? And we still dont know if its coming, at the moment we are just expecting it not to be out because of the silent treatment, is there a women in charge maybe?
Sry that was a joke xD.
BUT if this is true, what I read in the article, Im not okey with, its childish and unproffecianal.
This is a big gaming company, imagen WB, pixar or any other company, stopt selling or creating something you could pre order just becaue of hate or someone got offended? Imagen if you pre-ordered a car, factory new. But later they stopt, because some customers complained or hated to mutch on the product and somone at the car company got offended. WTF!?
Last edited by Zelox on 5 July 2017 at 11:21 am UTC
1 Likes, Who?
This doesn't surprise me at all. I remember reading the Steam forums at the time and I couldn't believe the amount of over-the-top negative criticism being directed at VP. I felt sorry for those guys. They (VP) were doing the Linux gaming community a huge favor by porting TW2 and this the thanks they get. Sure, they didn't get it right the first time, it happens with any developer, but the comments should have remained civil and criticism should have been constructive.
VP have done a great job with Bioshock, Dirt Showdown and Saints Row. I can only hope they've forgiven us and are planning more big title ports for Linux. And frankly, I couldn't care less if the ports are not fully native, as they as they run well.
VP have done a great job with Bioshock, Dirt Showdown and Saints Row. I can only hope they've forgiven us and are planning more big title ports for Linux. And frankly, I couldn't care less if the ports are not fully native, as they as they run well.
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Quoting: PeciskNo, message porters take was....if you try to do it, and if you fail to deliver, you get threats and hate mail.
It is huge difference from just being discontent with Witcher 2 release which WAS buggy and slow. One is personal attack, which is just low and huge no. Another is criticism about your professional work - which is all fine. We all have it at some point in our lives.
NONE of that was justified. Doesn't mean we should call out badly done ports or releases. We should. But learn some decency.
i agree. this is not okay. in fact i think you are most correct. however. this also happens when a windows game launches sub standard. its unfortunate but it has become part of doing business in the gaming industry and honestly has nothing at all to do with Linux.
I do hope that this behaviour changes. it would be nice if Linux gamers were better than the rest of the gamers but i fear thats not going to happen
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Well, at the end of the day, we have still no real information about what happened. What would be very interesting is some feedback from VP now that they have done so many ports. I do really want to know if this is profitable for them. It is the most important question as it determines whether or not we will continue to have ports in the near future. If i remember correxctly, Aspyr said few months ago that they were on balance. What about VP?
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I never saw this conversation, but would of course have agreed that going personal after employees would be crossing the line by miles! With that said, dropping Linux and ignoring the majority just because we was the happy customers that never saw any need to go out there and look for a reddit thread to complain in is a bit unprofessional and will likely just worsen the situation. I can sympathize with developers that sometimes feels it's like the world is on their shoulders and that "nobody" is appreciating their hard effort, but the truth is that the majority that never speak a word is the happy customers and this is something that applies to literally everything in this world - not only in the gaming industry. I hope they won't let the trolls speak for our community and instead learn to ignore them.
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A lot of you guys only seem to see the money when it comes to the question whether to do a linux port or not. You are missing other important factors: Motivation and health. There are still people working on a port, not machines.
Personal threads, over the top criticism and such can take away a lot of motivation. When your employees have less motivation, they won't work as well and "efficient". So it might not be worth it any more.
But more important: Health (in this case mental health). If your employees might suffer from burnout, depression or alike, it also might be not worth any more. You might have made a little bit more money, but you might have lost the stability and integrity of your team, which will hurt you a lot more in the long run.
Personal threads, over the top criticism and such can take away a lot of motivation. When your employees have less motivation, they won't work as well and "efficient". So it might not be worth it any more.
But more important: Health (in this case mental health). If your employees might suffer from burnout, depression or alike, it also might be not worth any more. You might have made a little bit more money, but you might have lost the stability and integrity of your team, which will hurt you a lot more in the long run.
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Quoting: liamdaweWe aren't better than others, that's just not looking outside the circle there.If I look at the ark bugs, I can confirm we are just as salty as any other community.
Still, that's my opinion, as your post is yours and opinions are welcome here :)
We have a lot of self entitled brats that never ever learned the meaning of respect.
I used to think we are better, but no, I had to revise that. I know *we* are better, but the developer won't see the difference between *we* and *them* 8-D.
So yes, we are a self-entitled bunch of salt bags spewing vile threats. I read phoronix yesterday, and I just closed it. The systemd mud slinging pro and contra are pretty bad.
I hope someday we learn to respect the software houses, and be nice to them.
Working with some single person companies, I can confirm these vile threats and salt is just a common human trait. Most humans seem somehow seem to feel entitled for $10k of work after paying $10. They usually also know exactly how you should do your work and never understand why things cost a lot of money and time. That's from a non-computing area.
So yes, this is exactly the same. We are humans, and I am ashamed of that.
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