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Valve have some serious competition, with the Epic Games Store being announced

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Epic Games have now officially announced their own store, which is certainly going to be one to keep an eye on.

I've been saying it for a while, especially after being privately shown screenshots of their newer launcher that Epic would be doing their own store. I was right on the money—for once.

Soon we'll launch the Epic Games store, and begin a long journey to advance the cause of all developers. The store will launch with a hand-curated set of games on PC and Mac, then it will open up more broadly to other games and to Android and other open platforms throughout 2019. 

Emphasis mine, because that could indicate Epic finally moving towards properly supporting Linux. I mean, apart from Windows, Mac and Android - what other open platforms are left that would be worth it? Linux. Apple have a very locked-down platform on mobile, so I would be doubtful of it going there. Same with the consoles, they're locked down.

The interesting thing here, is that Epic quite rightly have a massive pull in the industry. Fornite, only available through their launcher is the number 1 game in the world right now. Everyone knows what it is and so it's going to give Epic Games a good chance to be a very big store.

Not only that, their revenue share is 88% for developers, which is massive compared to most (better than Steam's). On top of that, if you're using Unreal Engine for your game Epic will even cover the 5% engine royalty in their cut. Although, to be clear, they state their store will be open to any game engine.

This is going to be a massive kick up Valve's backside to do better at everything. I'm all for it, competition is healthy even if I do groan at times at "yet another launcher". Epic have been doing good work with their community, so hopefully we will be able to get in on this next year. Heck, if Fortnite came to Linux—my son and I would be over the moon with joy. But I don't want to get too ahead of myself there…

See their announcement here.

What are your thoughts?

39 Likes, Who?
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173 comments
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mirv 5 December 2018 at 12:03 am UTC
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mylkai dont think they make the big bucks with linux
of course they wont lose money with their linux support, but if linux would be so profitable, than gog, ea, uplay, and epic already had linux support for their clients and/or their top sellers like witcher 3, battlefield, call of duty, assassins creed, fortnite, etc

so dont underestimate the effort, because the other big players just dont care about linux

(previous quotes snipped to keep text smaller)
So I was trying to be particular: it's not always about direct sales income. Valve started on GNU/Linux because Microsoft was forcing their hand - they used to it to more or less show that they're not reliant on Microsoft. Valve have also slowly been building up an infrastructure that allows them to move away entirely and run on their own (with a bit of extra funds if they need it immediately). They can play a long game, and "Proton" is pretty clear about their intentions: run the games, but don't rely on Windows.

This is, as I say, just good business. No, not big bucks (right now) with GNU/Linux, but it is a safeguard. That alone has probably stopped Microsoft pulling a few shenanigans of their own, and actually ended up ensuring that Valve haven't been screwed over.

And yeah, absolutely it's a big effort overall, but more importantly there's been some fairly practical investments: drivers, Vulkan, developer days, etc. Ok, perhaps Steam Machines wasn't a wise investment, but not everything can be (I'm sure they learned a lot, and I'm also sure they could afford the mistake).

I guess I have a different approach to many others. I don't see them as champions, I see them as good business people who don't like being under Microsoft's thumb. It also changes certain expectations: a champion I would expect to open source their game management client (aka Steam), but good business people I wouldn't.
....but, I will say they're working with the GNU/Linux community, and they're reaping rewards from it, so we should all point to Valve as an example of how a company should behave.
Purple Library Guy 5 December 2018 at 12:30 am UTC
YoRHa-2B
Pikolo
rcaridade145I was under the impression that MacOS isn't supported in SteamPlay. Has that changed, or was Mac support something they intended to work on after DXVK worked well on Linux?
Nothing has changed so far, in fact they have been removing Mac references from the Proton documentation that were once there.

I also don't see the point.
- Apple deprecated OpenGL, which to this date is the only API for which working D3D7-9 implementations exist, and their implementation is too old to support D3D11.
- Apple does not support Vulkan, none of the VK->Metal translation layers are able to run DXVK yet, and even if they did, performance would probably be terrible in most cases.
- Apple dropped support for 32-bit toolchains, and seem to be making it harder to run 32-bit stuff in general. Really bad news for Windows games because pretty much everything released before 2015 is 32-bit only, and even some modern games are 32-bit.
Apple are really trying hard to be useless for gaming, huh?


Last edited by Purple Library Guy at 5 December 2018 at 12:30 am UTC
mylka 5 December 2018 at 12:34 am UTC
mirv
mylkai dont think they make the big bucks with linux
of course they wont lose money with their linux support, but if linux would be so profitable, than gog, ea, uplay, and epic already had linux support for their clients and/or their top sellers like witcher 3, battlefield, call of duty, assassins creed, fortnite, etc

so dont underestimate the effort, because the other big players just dont care about linux

(previous quotes snipped to keep text smaller)
So I was trying to be particular: it's not always about direct sales income. Valve started on GNU/Linux because Microsoft was forcing their hand - they used to it to more or less show that they're not reliant on Microsoft. Valve have also slowly been building up an infrastructure that allows them to move away entirely and run on their own (with a bit of extra funds if they need it immediately). They can play a long game, and "Proton" is pretty clear about their intentions: run the games, but don't rely on Windows.

This is, as I say, just good business. No, not big bucks (right now) with GNU/Linux, but it is a safeguard. That alone has probably stopped Microsoft pulling a few shenanigans of their own, and actually ended up ensuring that Valve haven't been screwed over.

And yeah, absolutely it's a big effort overall, but more importantly there's been some fairly practical investments: drivers, Vulkan, developer days, etc. Ok, perhaps Steam Machines wasn't a wise investment, but not everything can be (I'm sure they learned a lot, and I'm also sure they could afford the mistake).

I guess I have a different approach to many others. I don't see them as champions, I see them as good business people who don't like being under Microsoft's thumb. It also changes certain expectations: a champion I would expect to open source their game management client (aka Steam), but good business people I wouldn't.
....but, I will say they're working with the GNU/Linux community, and they're reaping rewards from it, so we should all point to Valve as an example of how a company should behave.

but isnt MS thumb also a problem for origin, uplay, gog, etc?
lets say MS cuts everybody out tomorrow. origin, uplay, steam, gog, etc
do you think PC gamers would switch to linux, or are they all buying a console?

titiFor me its just another store without linux support. This means less games on steam and less linux games for us. And all this nice proton stuff is useless if games are published on other stores.

why would developers make it epic exclusive? you can buy ubisoft titles on steam and uplay. you can buy witcher on gog and steam and play it with proton
even if vavle does everything wrong in the future, it will take some years to "destroy" steam
and proton is still open source. maybe gog builds a wrapper thing with it for their games. (now that im thinking about. maybe some piracy sites already work on that, lol)
i wouldnt fear about that now
Purple Library Guy 5 December 2018 at 12:43 am UTC
mylka
mirvI guess I have a different approach to many others. I don't see them as champions, I see them as good business people who don't like being under Microsoft's thumb. It also changes certain expectations: a champion I would expect to open source their game management client (aka Steam), but good business people I wouldn't.
....but, I will say they're working with the GNU/Linux community, and they're reaping rewards from it, so we should all point to Valve as an example of how a company should behave.

but isnt MS thumb also a problem for origin, uplay, gog, etc?
Ultimately it is. Maybe they're just not as long-term-thinking businesspeople as Valve. But the other thing is that Valve is by far the market leader in the space; Valve has the luxury of worrying about Microsoft. The others would like to be able to worry about Microsoft, but they're busy needing to worry about Valve, and each other.
Shmerl 5 December 2018 at 1:25 am UTC
Purple Library GuyApple are really trying hard to be useless for gaming, huh?

They are obsessed with mobile cash cow and don't care about gaming or even about their own PC users, so it's not surprising.
Comandante Ñoñardo 5 December 2018 at 1:35 am UTC
If they don't accept Argentinian pesos CASH, I am not interested.
Steam and Greenmangaming are the only stores that accept Argentinian pesos CASH via Rapipago and Pagofacil.
TheSyldat 5 December 2018 at 1:50 am UTC
vipor29i'll believe it when i see it. If they put their launcher to linux and have support for some of their games.
Look at GOG where is the launcher for that?
People are just not giving linux a chance at all and it is sad.
Valve has really been the only one to give it a shot and it has helped linux a great deal when it comes to being a decent game platform.
I am hoping 2019 is a very very big year for linux.
Well to be fair itch.io is also getting there more and more and their launcher is actually quite great ...

Outside of that minor precision I share your point of view though. I'll believe it when they port it to linux and have a linux build for Fortnite now I'll be taking them seriously ...


Last edited by TheSyldat at 5 December 2018 at 1:51 am UTC
elmapul 5 December 2018 at 2:12 am UTC
i think an stronger valve will be better for us in the short time, then in the long time we will need competition for then.

they cant compete with microsoft in the OS right now, they need to be stronger to do that, but i dont see they geting any stronger
Nevertheless 5 December 2018 at 3:28 am UTC
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mylka
mirv
mylka
TemplarGRThat explains the recent Valve royalty cut...

Valve is very greedy and lazy. And sadly they don't show signs of improving. They will only really try to change their ways when it is too late, as is always the case...

you say that after all they did for linux (client, steamOS, wine/proton, dxvk, mesa) for free

Well, they're doing it because it benefits them. Yes, it's of benefit to the general GNU/Linux community too, but I wouldn't quite say "free" (Valve would expect something to come of it, or they wouldn't invest). Subtle difference, but important: and no flame wars, this is a good showcase of how a company can invest in open source software for their own benefit, without trampling on user rights.

Anyway, Valve have done plenty of shady things as well. Let's not forget the paid mod fiasco. They've steadily reduced their own effort in managing their own marketplace (trying to make it community run basically means they don't have to do anything except gather the cash). That point is going to stir a few emotions I'm sure, but it's good business sense really: get others to do the work for you. I wouldn't put it quite to the extreme of greedy and lazy, but neither are Valve going to put in more effort than they have to.

Oh, and Valve do try improve because they know that if they don't, the success with Steam that they've had won't last. They've been working to give themselves a direction, a way out of stagnation. I think there's even a video of Newell saying that somewhere.

Please please please people don't read this as attacking (quite often people do). I'm not. Valve aren't golden heroes, but neither are they murky villains. They're just doing good business, and obviously GNU/Linux is, or Valve believes has the potential for, good (desktop) business.

i dont think they make the big bucks with linux
of course they wont lose money with their linux support, but if linux would be so profitable, than gog, ea, uplay, and epic already had linux support for their clients and/or their top sellers like witcher 3, battlefield, call of duty, assassins creed, fortnite, etc

so dont underestimate the effort, because the other big players just dont care about linux

Valve needs Linux, because it's bound to be open. No one can own Linux and shut it down like Windows walled gardens. So Valve invested in openness! Maybe Epic sees that now too...
mylka 5 December 2018 at 4:00 am UTC
Nevertheless
mylka
mirv
mylka
TemplarGRThat explains the recent Valve royalty cut...

Valve is very greedy and lazy. And sadly they don't show signs of improving. They will only really try to change their ways when it is too late, as is always the case...

you say that after all they did for linux (client, steamOS, wine/proton, dxvk, mesa) for free

Well, they're doing it because it benefits them. Yes, it's of benefit to the general GNU/Linux community too, but I wouldn't quite say "free" (Valve would expect something to come of it, or they wouldn't invest). Subtle difference, but important: and no flame wars, this is a good showcase of how a company can invest in open source software for their own benefit, without trampling on user rights.

Anyway, Valve have done plenty of shady things as well. Let's not forget the paid mod fiasco. They've steadily reduced their own effort in managing their own marketplace (trying to make it community run basically means they don't have to do anything except gather the cash). That point is going to stir a few emotions I'm sure, but it's good business sense really: get others to do the work for you. I wouldn't put it quite to the extreme of greedy and lazy, but neither are Valve going to put in more effort than they have to.

Oh, and Valve do try improve because they know that if they don't, the success with Steam that they've had won't last. They've been working to give themselves a direction, a way out of stagnation. I think there's even a video of Newell saying that somewhere.

Please please please people don't read this as attacking (quite often people do). I'm not. Valve aren't golden heroes, but neither are they murky villains. They're just doing good business, and obviously GNU/Linux is, or Valve believes has the potential for, good (desktop) business.

i dont think they make the big bucks with linux
of course they wont lose money with their linux support, but if linux would be so profitable, than gog, ea, uplay, and epic already had linux support for their clients and/or their top sellers like witcher 3, battlefield, call of duty, assassins creed, fortnite, etc

so dont underestimate the effort, because the other big players just dont care about linux

Valve needs Linux, because it's bound to be open. No one can own Linux and shut it down like Windows walled gardens. So Valve invested in openness! Maybe Epic sees that now too...

i get it, but whats the point of openness, if no one uses linux? as i said. if MS makes games unplayable tomorrow, what would pc gamers do? switch to linux, mac, or buy a console?
i cant tell.

elmapuli think an stronger valve will be better for us in the short time, then in the long time we will need competition for then.

they cant compete with microsoft in the OS right now, they need to be stronger to do that, but i dont see they geting any stronger

it is not that easy.
1) they have to make a linux client
2) they need proton, or else they wont get the linux gamers.
3) they just have 1 game as a selling point. fortnite. i dont play fortnite
4) are games cheaper, because epic just takes 12%? ubisoft games cost the same on uplay and steam. if it is not MUCH cheaper and they dont have more exclusive titles, why would i leave steam?

we are far away from competition
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