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User Statistics - Proton Use
bintsmok commented on 22 October 2018 at 12:40 pm UTC

Hi Liam, can you add Proton use? I think there should be a distinction between Wine use and Proton use.

I play Windows games through Steam Play's Proton but I select "I never use it" in the Wine question of the survey.

Thanks

dvd commented on 22 October 2018 at 2:23 pm UTC

That's kind of odd, it's the same technology.

tuubi commented on 22 October 2018 at 3:19 pm UTC

I think it's a decent solution to just reword the question to "When did you last use Wine or Steam Play (Proton) to play a Window game on Linux" or something. A bit redundant but might prevent confusion. Although IMHO that data isn't very interesting compared to how many Windows games people actually bought to run on Linux. Up to Liam.

lucinos commented on 22 October 2018 at 3:35 pm UTC

dvdThat's kind of odd, it's the same technology.

I believe that they should count different. They may be "same technology" but from the user perspective, and that is what really matters in my opinion, they are VERY different. A user running wine is one thing, a developer using wine technology for a port is very different and proton is more like the second than the first. So proton is more "Steam is using wine technology" than "the user is using wine to port a game himself" or even steam if he installs steam through wine. These are very different things.

tuubi commented on 22 October 2018 at 5:14 pm UTC

lucinosSo proton is more "Steam is using wine technology" than "the user is using wine to port a game himself" or even steam if he installs steam through wine. These are very different things.
They might be different from the user's perspective, but my question was if this was relevant info for the GOL statistics.

Wine or Proton, the user is playing a Windows game on Linux. The only difference is how much effort they might have to put into it. Unless they use Proton and tweak the prefix anyway as is quite common, which muddies the waters a bit. A game dev shouldn't care beyond how many of their customers resort to emulation layers because there's no Linux build.

I guess individual users, porters, Valve, or Wine developers might be curious, and that might be enough of a reason for Liam to add this to the statistics. Maybe.

To me personally there's no big difference, but I don't mind either way. Liam's the one who makes the decision and puts in the effort.

g000h commented on 22 October 2018 at 6:33 pm UTC

tuubiI guess individual users, porters, Valve, or Wine developers might be curious, and that might be enough of a reason for Liam to add this to the statistics. Maybe.

To me personally there's no big difference, but I don't mind either way. Liam's the one who makes the decision and puts in the effort.

There are two massive differences between WINE and Proton:

1)
WINE - You're having to make the effort yourself to get the Windows game working on a Linux machine
Proton - Steam do all the work for you with their client, it is simply "Steam Play" and start playing

2)
WINE - From the developer / Steam perspective you are playing the game ON WINDOWS (i.e. it looks like you are a Windows gamer)
Proton - From the developer / Steam perspective, you are playing the game on Linux and it counts towards Linux usage statistics on Steam (which is beneficial for Linux market share and future incentive for developers to aim to improve gaming on Linux.)

tuubi commented on 22 October 2018 at 7:28 pm UTC

@g000h: I get what you're saying, but I think I answered both of your points already. As I said, there's obviously a difference in the effort a user has to put into getting a Windows game running. But how would the number of people using Wine vs Proton be useful in the GOL statistics?

Also, why would a game developer care whether users are playing their games on Wine or Proton? It would be nice if they knew how many people play their games on Linux regardless of the tech involved, but separating Wine and Proton in the GOL survey isn't going to give them that data. The survey doesn't ask which games we play on Wine, or actively provide that feedback to the developers. I do understand that Steam provides them platform data already, but I don't see what that has to do with the GOL statistics.

jens commented on 22 October 2018 at 7:40 pm UTC

g000h
tuubiI guess individual users, porters, Valve, or Wine developers might be curious, and that might be enough of a reason for Liam to add this to the statistics. Maybe.

To me personally there's no big difference, but I don't mind either way. Liam's the one who makes the decision and puts in the effort.

There are two massive differences between WINE and Proton:

1)
WINE - You're having to make the effort yourself to get the Windows game working on a Linux machine
Proton - Steam do all the work for you with their client, it is simply "Steam Play" and start playing

2)
WINE - From the developer / Steam perspective you are playing the game ON WINDOWS (i.e. it looks like you are a Windows gamer)
Proton - From the developer / Steam perspective, you are playing the game on Linux and it counts towards Linux usage statistics on Steam (which is beneficial for Linux market share and future incentive for developers to aim to improve gaming on Linux.)

This. I would love to see a difference in statistics between both.

bintsmok commented on 23 October 2018 at 6:38 am UTC

I do not "use" Wine because I don't like to tweak any settings or put significant effort in making a Windows game run on Linux. Not because I believe in "No Tux, No Bux".

I think it's valuable to our community to know how many of us want to play Windows games on Linux without having to deal with the complexity of Wine.

Of course, the final decision is with Liam.

dvd commented on 23 October 2018 at 4:35 pm UTC

Yes Proton is basically PlayonLinux Valve edition with focus on bigger titles and ones that work with little effort in wine presumably. The biggest added value is store support (as i understood it), compared to the user themselves running wine or PoL.

liamdawe commented on 23 October 2018 at 7:54 pm UTC

I will be looking to add a Steam Play question, but I'm currently unsure how to word it and what options to have for it.

I want to keep it simple to avoid any confusion.

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