Latest Comments
Deep Silver & Techland are not supporting Dead Island Definitive Edition on Linux, at all
By Shmerl, 16 June 2016 at 1:02 am UTC
I can't say, since GOG don't publish reasons for rejection. But such blatant refusal to support could have played a role.
By Shmerl, 16 June 2016 at 1:02 am UTC
Quoting: psychodriverQuoting: ShmerlI suppose it's the reason why GOG rejected Metro games. Companies which don't fix their bugs are jerks.
What bugs were in the Metro Redux ports? The only problem I had was it didn't like my custom alsa setup. I played through both games and was happy with the performance and stability.
I can't say, since GOG don't publish reasons for rejection. But such blatant refusal to support could have played a role.
Deep Silver & Techland are not supporting Dead Island Definitive Edition on Linux, at all
By Comandante Ñoñardo, 16 June 2016 at 12:53 am UTC
The lack of Vsync, the lack of manual resolution configuration and the gray dots...
Indeed, the linux version of both Redux were abandoned...
The linux version of the original MetroLL works better then the Redux version (at least for me)
About this, it seems there is a failure in the communications between Deepsilver's people.
By Comandante Ñoñardo, 16 June 2016 at 12:53 am UTC
Quoting: psychodriverQuoting: ShmerlI suppose it's the reason why GOG rejected Metro games. Companies which don't fix their bugs are jerks.
What bugs were in the Metro Redux ports? The only problem I had was it didn't like my custom alsa setup. I played through both games and was happy with the performance and stability.
The lack of Vsync, the lack of manual resolution configuration and the gray dots...
Indeed, the linux version of both Redux were abandoned...
The linux version of the original MetroLL works better then the Redux version (at least for me)
About this, it seems there is a failure in the communications between Deepsilver's people.
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By cRaZy-bisCuiT, 16 June 2016 at 12:25 am UTC Likes: 1
By cRaZy-bisCuiT, 16 June 2016 at 12:25 am UTC Likes: 1
Quoting: wojtek88Hmmm hd to 4k comparison got you weird results. 4 times more pixels to render and only like 2-5 fps less?Due to CPU limitation! In 1080p the CPU may allready limit the scenario while the GPU gets bored. Therfor (with a powerful GPU) there's not much of a difference. With better vulkan optimisation of the game and driver the performance cap may be raised a bit. Therfor the gap might get bigger.
Quoting: liamdaweA GTX 1080 is a more powerful card than my Nvidia 980ti.True indeed, still the 1080 driver is not well-optimised since it's very new. The difference will grow. Except for the fact the game is CPU limited anyways.
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By melkemind, 16 June 2016 at 12:22 am UTC Likes: 1
By melkemind, 16 June 2016 at 12:22 am UTC Likes: 1
I have no solution for any of this, and I don't even play Dota. But my limited experience with Vulkan has shown me that it runs much more smoothly, without hitches like I tend to get with OpenGL. In this case, I'm referring to the Talos Principle. I'm guessing it takes stress off the CPU and relies more on the GPU. I have a GTX 970 but a pretty old i5 CPU. The less stress on my CPU, the better (at least until I can upgrade).
Maybe, even though you're seeing slightly lower FPS, it might still be smoother performance and better use of the GPU. I'm totally speculating, but just wondering.
Maybe, even though you're seeing slightly lower FPS, it might still be smoother performance and better use of the GPU. I'm totally speculating, but just wondering.
Deep Silver & Techland are not supporting Dead Island Definitive Edition on Linux, at all
By mulletdeath, 16 June 2016 at 12:17 am UTC Likes: 2
By mulletdeath, 16 June 2016 at 12:17 am UTC Likes: 2
I'm kind of torn on situations like this. Maybe it's just different Linux users with different perspectives, but it seems like I see some Linux users complain about not getting certain titles at all, and will happily argue in a thread in a way that gives the impression they don't even care what state a Linux build would be, as long as they get one. Then they turn right around and say that if a developer is gonna bother making a Linux port then they dang well better support it even if official support is something prohibitively costly. I am not speaking of anyone in particular here, and maybe such folks aren't acting like that on purpose, but that's the somewhat contradictory vibe I get from a lot of Linux gamers.
Part of me just wants to celebrate that this or any unsupported game works on Linux at all, whether that be ports or a WINE game. One of the difficult aspects of using Linux is frequently leaving the land of "official support" behind, especially if you use a more niche distro like Arch or Gentoo, and making things work anyway.
To be fair I feel the pain quite personally for both scenarios, whether it be getting a bad port, or no port. But honestly I think if I had to choose between the two, I think I would take the former, because the Linux gaming library is still so far from parity with Windows.
Part of me just wants to celebrate that this or any unsupported game works on Linux at all, whether that be ports or a WINE game. One of the difficult aspects of using Linux is frequently leaving the land of "official support" behind, especially if you use a more niche distro like Arch or Gentoo, and making things work anyway.
To be fair I feel the pain quite personally for both scenarios, whether it be getting a bad port, or no port. But honestly I think if I had to choose between the two, I think I would take the former, because the Linux gaming library is still so far from parity with Windows.
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By dubigrasu, 15 June 2016 at 11:44 pm UTC
By dubigrasu, 15 June 2016 at 11:44 pm UTC
Quoting: aFoxNamedMorrisOn a GTX 980 over here, I got capped at 120, with the occasional drop to 119.Are you using the "+fps_max 0" argument?
A new benchmark video shows Dota 2 with Vulkan performing better on Windows than Linux
By cue58, 15 June 2016 at 11:39 pm UTC
By cue58, 15 June 2016 at 11:39 pm UTC
Does anyone know if there's anything about the way Vulkan drivers are being developed (by NVidia in particular) that would put it behind Windows in performance?
I've always heard that they just aren't developing the OpenGL drivers as well on Linux as they do on Windows, but is that going to be a problem with Vulkan too?
As far as I know it's a much simpler API, so can we expect that at least from the driver perspective we should be at parity with Windows Vulkan drivers in the not too distant future, where most performance differences would be in the games code itself rather than drivers?
I've always heard that they just aren't developing the OpenGL drivers as well on Linux as they do on Windows, but is that going to be a problem with Vulkan too?
As far as I know it's a much simpler API, so can we expect that at least from the driver perspective we should be at parity with Windows Vulkan drivers in the not too distant future, where most performance differences would be in the games code itself rather than drivers?
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By D34VA_, 15 June 2016 at 11:36 pm UTC
By D34VA_, 15 June 2016 at 11:36 pm UTC
On a GTX 980 over here, I got capped at 120, with the occasional drop to 119.
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By dubigrasu, 15 June 2016 at 11:24 pm UTC
Ideally I would use more demos with specific scenarios or a single one but much longer.
For the moment though is too early (I think) to spend so much time for a benchmark that tomorrow might be obsolete.
By dubigrasu, 15 June 2016 at 11:24 pm UTC
Quoting: liamdaweI wouldn't just use the ones the Valve dev pointed out, there aren't any that are the "best".No, not the "best" indeed, they are just meant to illustrate scenarios where Vulkan is efficient.
Ideally I would use more demos with specific scenarios or a single one but much longer.
For the moment though is too early (I think) to spend so much time for a benchmark that tomorrow might be obsolete.
Deep Silver & Techland are not supporting Dead Island Definitive Edition on Linux, at all
By Segata Sanshiro, 15 June 2016 at 11:18 pm UTC Likes: 2
It's a shame when a publisher isn't doing their job and it tarnishes the name of the developer, which is what may or may not have happened here. We don't really know what goes on behind closed doors, but Deep Silver and Techland do have a bit of a turbulent history.
I like to follow a "give the benefit of the doubt" policy with companies who support Linux. I can only think of one or two developers who I find their actions to be scummy enough to not buy from them, though still open to them redeeming themselves.
By Segata Sanshiro, 15 June 2016 at 11:18 pm UTC Likes: 2
Quoting: liamdaweQuoting: InspectorGidgetI know we're all really upset with Deep Silver right now... but!Indeed, this should apply to all developers. If they do release a game they support well, why not buy it.
I don't think it's good for Linux gaming for someone to commit to never buying another product from them again. I'm not saying I won't consider the fact that this crap went on when purchasing one of their games, because I definitely will. I love Linux more than I dislike the publisher, so I'll continue to at least give them consideration in the future.
It's a shame when a publisher isn't doing their job and it tarnishes the name of the developer, which is what may or may not have happened here. We don't really know what goes on behind closed doors, but Deep Silver and Techland do have a bit of a turbulent history.
I like to follow a "give the benefit of the doubt" policy with companies who support Linux. I can only think of one or two developers who I find their actions to be scummy enough to not buy from them, though still open to them redeeming themselves.
Nuclear Dawn FPS/RTS hybrid updated, some important fixes for Linux included
By staticx27, 15 June 2016 at 11:12 pm UTC
By staticx27, 15 June 2016 at 11:12 pm UTC
I'll play. Buying right now.
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By STiAT, 15 June 2016 at 10:57 pm UTC
By STiAT, 15 June 2016 at 10:57 pm UTC
It's okay, different graphical patterns use different features on the GPU. The benchmarks we do can widely differ based on the demos we use, the state of implementation of drivers for a certain GPU architecture etc, driver versions we're using etc.
That all is perfectly okay. All we know now: It's not where we'd like to see Vulkan yet. There is room for improvement in drivers and engines. That's all we can say.
That all is perfectly okay. All we know now: It's not where we'd like to see Vulkan yet. There is room for improvement in drivers and engines. That's all we can say.
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By Liam Dawe, 15 June 2016 at 10:56 pm UTC
I wouldn't just use the ones the Valve dev pointed out, there aren't any that are the "best".
By Liam Dawe, 15 June 2016 at 10:56 pm UTC
Quoting: dubigrasuBelieve all of them. That's the point, each demo has a completely different set of actions going on.Quoting: NyamiouThe resuls by dubigrasu already show that you can greatly change the results by using another demo :Yeah, but which one is the good one ? :)
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/a-new-benchmark-video-shows-dota-2-with-vulkan-performing-better-on-windows-than-linux.7428/page=7#63762
Personally I used what dang_valve told me to use (after all, he's the damn Source Vulkan dev) for relevant Vulkan benchmarks, but I ran other demos too before that and the results were very different.
So not sure what to believe.
I wouldn't just use the ones the Valve dev pointed out, there aren't any that are the "best".
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By dubigrasu, 15 June 2016 at 10:55 pm UTC
Personally I used what dang_valve told me to use (after all, he's the damn Source Vulkan dev) for relevant Vulkan benchmarks, but I ran other demos too before that and the results were very different.
So not sure what to believe.
By dubigrasu, 15 June 2016 at 10:55 pm UTC
Quoting: NyamiouThe resuls by dubigrasu already show that you can greatly change the results by using another demoYeah, but which one is the good one ? :)
Personally I used what dang_valve told me to use (after all, he's the damn Source Vulkan dev) for relevant Vulkan benchmarks, but I ran other demos too before that and the results were very different.
So not sure what to believe.
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By Liam Dawe, 15 June 2016 at 10:39 pm UTC
The results will change with every demo, which I did note in the article. I am also using a different distribution to others.
Phoronix knows plenty more than me that is true (his 4K results on Linux showed the same thing mine did, see previous comment). All I am doing is using the official benchmark tool with a demo, you can't do much else. The graphical settings were confirmed to be the same in every single run, I double checked.
By Liam Dawe, 15 June 2016 at 10:39 pm UTC
Quoting: NyamiouComparing your test to the test of the guy on the video, your video card is more powerful than a GTX 1080 (same average and better minimum).A GTX 1080 is a more powerful card than my Nvidia 980ti.
The resuls by dubigrasu already show that you can greatly change the results by using another demo :
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/a-new-benchmark-video-shows-dota-2-with-vulkan-performing-better-on-windows-than-linux.7428/page=7#63762
I'm happy that Phoronix will do those Windows vs Linux Vulkan benchmarks too soon, not that I doubt your abilities but I always prefer someone who's got some experience to do them, at least I would be more incline to make some conclusions about Vulkan on Linux with his results.
The results will change with every demo, which I did note in the article. I am also using a different distribution to others.
Phoronix knows plenty more than me that is true (his 4K results on Linux showed the same thing mine did, see previous comment). All I am doing is using the official benchmark tool with a demo, you can't do much else. The graphical settings were confirmed to be the same in every single run, I double checked.
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By Nyamiou, 15 June 2016 at 10:36 pm UTC
By Nyamiou, 15 June 2016 at 10:36 pm UTC
Comparing your test to the test of the guy on the video, your video card is more powerful than a GTX 1080 (same average and better minimum).
The resuls by dubigrasu already show that you can greatly change the results by using another demo :
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/a-new-benchmark-video-shows-dota-2-with-vulkan-performing-better-on-windows-than-linux.7428/page=7#63762
I'm happy that Phoronix will do those Windows vs Linux Vulkan benchmarks too soon, not that I doubt your abilities but I always prefer someone who's got some experience to do them, at least I would be more incline to make some conclusions about Vulkan on Linux with his results.
The resuls by dubigrasu already show that you can greatly change the results by using another demo :
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/a-new-benchmark-video-shows-dota-2-with-vulkan-performing-better-on-windows-than-linux.7428/page=7#63762
I'm happy that Phoronix will do those Windows vs Linux Vulkan benchmarks too soon, not that I doubt your abilities but I always prefer someone who's got some experience to do them, at least I would be more incline to make some conclusions about Vulkan on Linux with his results.
Nuclear Dawn FPS/RTS hybrid updated, some important fixes for Linux included
By Citiroller, 15 June 2016 at 10:35 pm UTC
By Citiroller, 15 June 2016 at 10:35 pm UTC
I really liked this game when I played it a little around one year ago. It was really sad that they stopped developing but it seems they're back on track :)
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By Liam Dawe, 15 June 2016 at 10:34 pm UTC Likes: 1
To be fair, I turned off the compositor for fullscreen applications (in general settings) and the 4K results for Vulkan were even worse.
I don't think Cinnamon is good for testing at all. I will reserve that final judgement for when I get Ubuntu back on though.
By Liam Dawe, 15 June 2016 at 10:34 pm UTC Likes: 1
Quoting: STiATWhat kind of compositor does Cinnamon use?Muffin, a fork of Gnome's Mutter.
To be fair, I turned off the compositor for fullscreen applications (in general settings) and the 4K results for Vulkan were even worse.
I don't think Cinnamon is good for testing at all. I will reserve that final judgement for when I get Ubuntu back on though.
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By STiAT, 15 June 2016 at 10:29 pm UTC
By STiAT, 15 June 2016 at 10:29 pm UTC
What kind of compositor does Cinnamon use?
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By Liam Dawe, 15 June 2016 at 10:25 pm UTC
Phoronix tests also showed OpenGL beating Vulkan at 4K: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=dota2-vulkan-redux&num=4
He had Vulkan doing better at 1080p than OpenGL. He was using a different demo file though and he is on a different distribution with a different CPU. Still, it shows my 4K results are within expectations right now for Vulkan vs OpenGL.
By Liam Dawe, 15 June 2016 at 10:25 pm UTC
Quoting: STiATVery interesting. Since for me, well, I used the dem of the guy doing the video, Vulkan clearly outperformed OpenGL. Very interesting.I have a feeling Cinnamon is a bit of a hog for games.
Phoronix tests also showed OpenGL beating Vulkan at 4K: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=dota2-vulkan-redux&num=4
He had Vulkan doing better at 1080p than OpenGL. He was using a different demo file though and he is on a different distribution with a different CPU. Still, it shows my 4K results are within expectations right now for Vulkan vs OpenGL.
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By STiAT, 15 June 2016 at 10:24 pm UTC
By STiAT, 15 June 2016 at 10:24 pm UTC
Very interesting. Since for me, well, I used the dem of the guy doing the video, Vulkan clearly outperformed OpenGL. Very interesting.
[edit] ok, on 1080 your test does too :D...
[edit] ok, on 1080 your test does too :D...
Nuclear Dawn FPS/RTS hybrid updated, some important fixes for Linux included
By STiAT, 15 June 2016 at 10:22 pm UTC
By STiAT, 15 June 2016 at 10:22 pm UTC
<installing>
Nation Red, an arena-based shooter against zombies is now available on Linux, rated highly
By Linas, 15 June 2016 at 10:13 pm UTC
I am having the exactly the same problem. :( Hopefully it gets fixed, because I would love to kill some zombies in local coop.
By Linas, 15 June 2016 at 10:13 pm UTC
Quoting: AbacusSwitchNeither my steam controller nor my Xbox 360 wired controller work.
I am having the exactly the same problem. :( Hopefully it gets fixed, because I would love to kill some zombies in local coop.
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By Liam Dawe, 15 June 2016 at 10:12 pm UTC
The tests are correct as of this comment btw.
By Liam Dawe, 15 June 2016 at 10:12 pm UTC
Quoting: wojtek88Hmmm hd to 4k comparison got you weird results. 4 times more pixels to render and only like 2-5 fps less?For those seeing this comment, the tests had to be re-done. There's a greyed-out slider for graphical quality on Dota 2 that you don't really notice unless you go to advanced options. It changes when you change resolution.
The tests are correct as of this comment btw.
A new benchmark video shows Dota 2 with Vulkan performing better on Windows than Linux
By STiAT, 15 June 2016 at 9:57 pm UTC
By STiAT, 15 June 2016 at 9:57 pm UTC
It is. Because it's way better than with OpenGL .. still.
And that there is work ahead for the driver developers - we knew that.
In comparison, they have a lot more experience with this kind of API in Windows bringing it close to DX12 than in Linux. Besides that, we can't consider Linux as the major platform. But we COULD benefit from games adopting Vulkan in Windows, so the real good performance in Windows could in the end help us. And if NVidia and AMD optimize their drivers more, we could get close to the performance. And I'm sure they'll work on that over time.
With the direction of Microsoft pushing services rather than APIs, we could see a change in their stance to DX too one day, as "we don't care what graphics API you use on XBox".. but we're still ages away from that. Though, they have been moving really fast on things like that lately. SQL Server for Linux? C'mon, who expected that?
And that there is work ahead for the driver developers - we knew that.
In comparison, they have a lot more experience with this kind of API in Windows bringing it close to DX12 than in Linux. Besides that, we can't consider Linux as the major platform. But we COULD benefit from games adopting Vulkan in Windows, so the real good performance in Windows could in the end help us. And if NVidia and AMD optimize their drivers more, we could get close to the performance. And I'm sure they'll work on that over time.
With the direction of Microsoft pushing services rather than APIs, we could see a change in their stance to DX too one day, as "we don't care what graphics API you use on XBox".. but we're still ages away from that. Though, they have been moving really fast on things like that lately. SQL Server for Linux? C'mon, who expected that?
Here's my own Linux OpenGL vs Vulkan test for Dota 2, not much difference for me
By wojtek88, 15 June 2016 at 9:53 pm UTC
By wojtek88, 15 June 2016 at 9:53 pm UTC
Hmmm hd to 4k comparison got you weird results. 4 times more pixels to render and only like 2-5 fps less?
A new benchmark video shows Dota 2 with Vulkan performing better on Windows than Linux
By Mohandevir, 15 June 2016 at 9:50 pm UTC Likes: 1
By Mohandevir, 15 June 2016 at 9:50 pm UTC Likes: 1
Thanks Dubi for the benchmarks, we have another point of view on the situation.
All is not as gloomy as it seemed, afterall... In fact, your benchmarks are quite positively impressive.
All is not as gloomy as it seemed, afterall... In fact, your benchmarks are quite positively impressive.
A new benchmark video shows Dota 2 with Vulkan performing better on Windows than Linux
By dubigrasu, 15 June 2016 at 9:30 pm UTC
From what I understood they are actually the best for this task, as in putting Vulkan to work.
By dubigrasu, 15 June 2016 at 9:30 pm UTC
Quoting: liamdaweThose are just what he happened to be testing with, doesn't mean the are the best. Just different.Ah well (I misread your post), when Phoronix tested "some" random gameplay DanG said that they were not giving a full image of what Vulkan can do, so that's why he provided the ones I used.
From what I understood they are actually the best for this task, as in putting Vulkan to work.
Nuclear Dawn FPS/RTS hybrid updated, some important fixes for Linux included
By Fenix2412, 15 June 2016 at 9:25 pm UTC
By Fenix2412, 15 June 2016 at 9:25 pm UTC
I think I will be joining too
A new benchmark video shows Dota 2 with Vulkan performing better on Windows than Linux
By dubigrasu, 15 June 2016 at 9:22 pm UTC
But basically Valve's Dota dev said that those two demos (from Phoronix) are the ones to use when testing Vulkan...so I used one.
By dubigrasu, 15 June 2016 at 9:22 pm UTC
Quoting: Mountain ManBetween this and the OpenBenchmarking test, I'm beginning to the think the kid in this video screwed up his Linux benchmark.Well, I don't know. Like I said, you get different results depending on what demo you use. Maybe I should've use the same demo he used for a strict/correct comparison?
But basically Valve's Dota dev said that those two demos (from Phoronix) are the ones to use when testing Vulkan...so I used one.
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