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How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By Eike, 14 March 2016 at 3:39 pm UTC Likes: 1

Quoting: Zeloxwhen I changed destros alot I got the survey with every install.
Iv got it once or twice in windows. But I got that survey alot more in linux.
I dont know the logic behinde the apperience of the survey

What comes to my mind for the first time, sorry if it has been said a million times before...

If they use the data taken from (e. g.) you over all the months (not only in the month it has been asked for), there's no need to ask again. You'd just be in the data pool. They would only need to query again if, say, your hardware would have changed.

That said, it would make my test from post 2 meaningless. Maybe I can trigger the survey, but it would just change my recorded data, not add 1 to the Linux users counted.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By Liam Dawe, 14 March 2016 at 3:38 pm UTC

I've put all the references in a click-able spoiler to help with scrolling.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By GNUzel, 14 March 2016 at 3:36 pm UTC

I haven't gotten the Linux survey in 2 years, despite changing Linux distros.. I only see and get recommended Linux games however, despite owning a lot of Windows ones from before Steam for Linux.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By Zelox, 14 March 2016 at 3:18 pm UTC

when I changed destros alot I got the survey with every install.
Iv got it once or twice in windows. But I got that survey alot more in linux.
I dont know the logic behinde the apperience of the survey

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By edo, 14 March 2016 at 3:11 pm UTC Likes: 1

I received my laptop like three months ago, dual boot, after using steam on the Windows partition I received the survey, but I still haven't on linux, maybe it assumed than I am only using Windows

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By wolfyrion, 14 March 2016 at 3:06 pm UTC

Why do we care about how big is the Linux Gaming Community??

My point of view on this is that most of the AAA developers doesnt let the Linux community grow.
The people who want to start or at least try to use Linux with every AAA title they just say "fuck this" and go back to Windows just to play the NEW AAA Title.

How many NEW AAA Games did Linux have in 2016 ? as far as I know Only XCOM 2 ?
Most of the PC Gaming sites have around 20-25 Anticipated games for 2016, from all that games maybe only 2-3 will get a Linux release and maybe on day 1.

Gamers doesnt care about OS
They care about two things --> Performance and Availability
That is what Valve is trying to do with Vulkan.
Valve already knows that and when they are ready , they have many ways to advertise how Linux is better than Windows but they are not ready yet.
Imagine in a Dota 2 sponsored by Valve Final tournament the winner says
" I am using SteamOS because it gives me better performance, stability and no lag issues ,is incredible how fast it is comparing to Windows"

if Vulkan Delivers the performance we need and developers start supporting Linux from day 1 then the Linux Gaming community will grow in a snap.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By Cheeseness, 14 March 2016 at 2:53 pm UTC

Quoting: TheBossNever asked you to join an argument, was just pointing out someone who believes strongly on the other side.

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to suggest that you had. It was more to ensure that there wasn't misunderstanding about my intentions with responding.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By Comandante Ñoñardo, 14 March 2016 at 2:35 pm UTC Likes: 3

When I created my second Steam account 100% Linux, immediately I had a pop up with Steam Hardware Survey and ALL the games from the " Explore Your Queue" section were all Linux games... But, when I use my first Steam account on Linux, the situation is different: Most of the games in the "Explore Your queue" are Windows games... It seems that Steam stats remember the info of the system where the account was created, but not the system where the account is being used right now.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By Liam Dawe, 14 March 2016 at 2:16 pm UTC

Quoting: Cheeseness
Quoting: TheBoss@Cheese, I actually had an argument with "YanderMan" the owner of BoilingSteam on the "The survey results highlight statistically insignificant fractions"

There are plenty of aspects of the Steam Hardware & Software Survey results which definitely aren't statistically insignificant, but it does draw attention to some things that are. I'm not interested in engaging in an argument via proxy, but I am happy to stand by the calculations under the Insignificant Fractions and Margins of Error headings in the full article and enjoy chatting with my readers - especially if it reveals something that I've missed.

Whether the sampling is reliable/not buggy and whether the aggregation is appropriate/not flawed is a separate issue IMO.

Never asked you to join an argument, was just pointing out someone who believes strongly on the other side.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By Foxv71, 14 March 2016 at 1:56 pm UTC

Grow Mr tux grow!

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By Cheeseness, 14 March 2016 at 1:53 pm UTC Likes: 1

Quoting: TheBoss@Cheese, I actually had an argument with "YanderMan" the owner of BoilingSteam on the "The survey results highlight statistically insignificant fractions"

There are plenty of aspects of the Steam Hardware & Software Survey results which definitely aren't statistically insignificant, but it does draw attention to some things that are. I'm not interested in engaging in an argument via proxy, but I am happy to stand by the calculations under the Insignificant Fractions and Margins of Error headings in the full article and enjoy chatting with my readers - especially if it reveals something that I've missed.

Whether the sampling is reliable/not buggy and whether the aggregation is appropriate/not flawed is a separate issue IMO.


Quoting: Pit
Quoting: CheesenessI'd not spotted that post from Humble. At the time I wrote my last article looking at cross-platform support in Humble Bundles, there had been 59 Linux debuts in Humble's promotions between May 2010 and December 2012. Of those, the majority had been ported internally by the studios that created them (that includes stuff created using engines/tech that already had Linux support).

Well even if they did not port (many) titles themselves, it was Humble that made the others do the port with the definite requirement that only titles available DRM-free on all platforms can go in a bundle. It is mostly for this IMHO substantial contribution to Linux-gaming that I still do go there now and then, at least for the HIBs. The rest is meanwhile done better by GOG.....

Don't get me wrong - I'm very glad that Humble helped provide incentive and desire for developers to pursue and investigate Linux in their earlier days (putting aside for a moment that plenty of those developers were pursuing Linux support regardless of bundle inclusion), but if they are indeed misrepresenting the hard work of developers outside of Humble as work of their own, that is a separate issue.

Quoting: ricki42
Quoting: CheesenessI still maintain that the Steam survey has significant shortcomings that make it hard to have much confidence in its results (nothing on the front has changed since this article.

The ratio and absolute number of Linux games have changed though. Currently about 25% of games are available on Linux (1947 / 7716), so adjusting the 1% that would be 4%. This is a bit larger than the median Linux sales I calculated, but not hugely, and in agreement with the average (though I don't think the average is a good indicator for such a skewed distribution). But I'm not sure if this kind of linear adjustment is still valid when there are so many games available. Almost 2000 games is likely more than any of us can possibly play, so we actually get to pick and choose a lot more than in 2013; personally I have a huge backlog, so I don't immediately jump on every available Linux game any more.

I did have a typo in that post - I'd meant to write "on that front" (regarding the shortcomings which I believe undermine the survey results) rather than "on the front".

The change in the ratio of Linux users to Linux titles on Steam is what I was alluding to when I mentioned that the number of available titles had increased dramatically. I think that kind of adjustment you're exploring there is only fair when considering the potential market size (which is all the survey could ever indicate).

I'd always expected that we're quickly arrive at a transitional period where Linux gamers would no longer be purchasing every title and instead (hopefully) only purchasing ones they like. I've found it hard to keep track of whether this has had a real impact on developers' experiences. I like to pretend that it's an indication that the market size has grown enough to compensate ^_^

Quoting: ricki42But I agree that the complete lack of information from Valve about how the survey works makes it somewhat suspect. If my suspicion is correct and it really pops up more often on 'secondary' machines, that could introduce bias as older, weaker rigs (or less used Windows partitions and wine installations) are more likely to be counted. On the other hand, Steam could just remember both configurations, but then that information would have to be attached to the account, when supposedly that's not the case.

I feel like it's also worth taking into consideration the kind of work culture and attitude towards rigorous quality control. There's a strong likelihood that the survey is one person's passion project and that nobody beyond them really checks to see if it's working (the sampling bug I tried to report in 2011 and had presumably been around since July 2010 went over a year before it was noticed and corrected).

A friend of mine who worked at Valve at the time went on a hunt to find the person responsible for the survey (I don't know their identity) and passed on my full article. Other than calling me "wordy," the only thing they had to say was something along the lines of, "I’m pretty sure we’ve mentioned some details publicly about our methodology (number of samples, what users and when we survey them). I can’t find a link in 60 seconds of googling."

In spite of the acknowledged difficulty of finding details of methodology, nothing further was published from them :(

Sunday fun: Theme Hospital on Linux using the open source CorsixTH engine
By Segata Sanshiro, 14 March 2016 at 1:52 pm UTC

This is still the greatest game of all time, I'm glad CorsixTH exists to keep it alive.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By mao_dze_dun, 14 March 2016 at 1:47 pm UTC

Quite interesting numbers. Thank you for the effort and time you've put into these stats.
Personally, I think the share is more important than the absolute number, because there is this wrongful assumption a lot of Linux gamers that is there are a million and a half active Linux games on Steam, that means that somehow they will all magically buy each new game and that will somehow make developers prone to porting their game. Xpander's suggestion above makes much more sense, though I think that 3% of sales is still too generous. The most basic and probably accurate assumption is that sales are more or less relative to market share. So that 3% is probably what a Mac port get from the overall game sales. So if we assume it's actually 1% of 200k - you can see why a lot of developers wouldn't bother.
The solution to the problem is Valve giving developers incentive to port for Linux. And help, lots and lots of help.

AMD could be back in the CPU performance game with Zen
By Grimfist, 14 March 2016 at 1:13 pm UTC Likes: 1

I really hope for AMD that they really pull out something very good. I always loved these guys, and their recent openness and dedication to FOSS just makes me wanna support these guys. But as they still can't deliver the same experience than Intel+NVidia my choice remains settled.
Maybe this will change with ZEN and beyond

AMD could be back in the CPU performance game with Zen
By whatever, 14 March 2016 at 1:05 pm UTC

Quoting: NyapDoes this affect us?
https://forum.teksyndicate.com/t/microsoft-officially-to-support-new-processors-only-on-windows-10/95333/12
edit: https://forum.teksyndicate.com/uploads/default/original/3X/d/8/d8b6ff40f69d106300b7f70ac439134fe9fc1419.png

Nope. Linux is a giant in the server and embedded worlds. Its functionality will not be limited on future CPU generations. Not in a hundred years.
Those articles just say that if you want to use Windows, you have to use Win10.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By ricki42, 14 March 2016 at 12:24 pm UTC

Quoting: CheesenessI still maintain that the Steam survey has significant shortcomings that make it hard to have much confidence in its results (nothing on the front has changed since this article.

The ratio and absolute number of Linux games have changed though. Currently about 25% of games are available on Linux (1947 / 7716), so adjusting the 1% that would be 4%. This is a bit larger than the median Linux sales I calculated, but not hugely, and in agreement with the average (though I don't think the average is a good indicator for such a skewed distribution). But I'm not sure if this kind of linear adjustment is still valid when there are so many games available. Almost 2000 games is likely more than any of us can possibly play, so we actually get to pick and choose a lot more than in 2013; personally I have a huge backlog, so I don't immediately jump on every available Linux game any more.
But I agree that the complete lack of information from Valve about how the survey works makes it somewhat suspect. If my suspicion is correct and it really pops up more often on 'secondary' machines, that could introduce bias as older, weaker rigs (or less used Windows partitions and wine installations) are more likely to be counted. On the other hand, Steam could just remember both configurations, but then that information would have to be attached to the account, when supposedly that's not the case.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By Xpander, 14 March 2016 at 12:20 pm UTC Likes: 4

so if we know that we are ~1% in steam and on average every game has ~3% sales for linux users
we can calculate how many people are likely buying a game
and we can do same for windows


so lets say 1.25 milion linux users. A game that sells 200k copies for example and 3% of them are Linux sales
its 6000 copies

200k copies from all 125milion users is just 0.16%

now lets take out those linux figures 200k-6000= 194k
and lets take out linux user count 125mil-1.25 mil = 123,75mil

194k copies from 123,75mil users is 0,156% - thats how likely mac and windows users buy this game.

and for linux

6000 copies from 1,25 mil users is 0.48% - thats how likely Linux users wil buy the game


well i hope i did everything correctly. im not really good at math :D

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By Pit, 14 March 2016 at 12:19 pm UTC

Quoting: CheesenessI'd not spotted that post from Humble. At the time I wrote my last article looking at cross-platform support in Humble Bundles, there had been 59 Linux debuts in Humble's promotions between May 2010 and December 2012. Of those, the majority had been ported internally by the studios that created them (that includes stuff created using engines/tech that already had Linux support).

Well even if they did not port (many) titles themselves, it was Humble that made the others do the port with the definite requirement that only titles available DRM-free on all platforms can go in a bundle. It is mostly for this IMHO substantial contribution to Linux-gaming that I still do go there now and then, at least for the HIBs. The rest is meanwhile done better by GOG.....

AMD could be back in the CPU performance game with Zen
By commodore256, 14 March 2016 at 11:52 am UTC

I think the gaming enthusiast dedicated market could be dying for CPUs. Not to say you won't have high end CPUs in the future, but with Vulkan coming out, it makes sense to get a lot of cores and you can get 12 cores by investing in used Xeons and it will cost only $140. I know of a guy that invested in a dual xeon rig.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By pb, 14 March 2016 at 11:48 am UTC Likes: 1

Quoting: norsettoThe only way to entice gamers to linux would be if games were cheaper on that platform.

Yeah, then every second Windows gamer would install Linux just to buy the game and maybe a few of them would play it on Linux while they're already logged in. :D

But seriously, Valve could run an experimental "SteamOS-only sale", I'd like to see results of that.

Sunday fun: Theme Hospital on Linux using the open source CorsixTH engine
By commodore256, 14 March 2016 at 11:46 am UTC

Quoting: zikzakThis game is great, if only Theme Park had the same engine.
Next is OpenSyndicate?

Freesynd already exists.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By devland, 14 March 2016 at 11:44 am UTC Likes: 1

Linux market share will always be hard to track just because the OS doesn't phone home and that's a good thing. :)

AMD could be back in the CPU performance game with Zen
By Armand Raynal, 14 March 2016 at 11:42 am UTC

Quoting: Crazy PenguinWell, just another AMD-bla bla bla. IMHO AMD should be better get stuff going instead of talking about it.
ZEN is done for a little while now, but AMD is fabless. They have to wait for Global foundries and Samsung to make ready their 14nm production line.

It seems like we didn't see GPUs in 20nm because Apple was prioritary(understand bigger economically) and needed all the production lines of TSMC, you know, for their new shitphone. Yep, we could have had new GFX cards in 2015. But it is not the fault of the chip designers.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By norsetto, 14 March 2016 at 11:27 am UTC

The only way to entice gamers to linux would be if games were cheaper on that platform.

AMD could be back in the CPU performance game with Zen
By Crazy Penguin, 14 March 2016 at 11:19 am UTC Likes: 2

Well, just another AMD-bla bla bla. IMHO AMD should be better get stuff going instead of talking about it.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By Liam Dawe, 14 March 2016 at 10:57 am UTC

@Cheese, I actually had an argument with "YanderMan" the owner of BoilingSteam on the "The survey results highlight statistically insignificant fractions" part:
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/49206l/linux_usage_on_steam_is_better_than_people_think/d0ogui1

AMD could be back in the CPU performance game with Zen
By Armand Raynal, 14 March 2016 at 10:53 am UTC

Quoting: MaokeiI guess AMD strategy will be to make a pure powerful CPU without spending allot of silicon making space for a GPU most people wont use in their desktop machine like intel.

With the 14nm of Global foundries & Samsung that will be used to make the ZEN CPUs AMD could actually combine a powerful CPU with a very decent graphic part, I mean, decent for gaming.
The max quantity of transistors with the actual 28nm process is almost reached by the fidjii GPU(7,9 Billion if I remember accuratly ...).
Actual FX vishera 8300 series(and so the 9000) count only 1,2 billion transistors.

AMD could make some big APUs with 4 or 6 cores(physical, twice logicals with their own HT that ZEN will introduce) and 2048 Radeon cores(as in a 7970, but with a brand new arcitecture) in a power package that's not above 100 watt TDP.
The integration in small form factor like laptops or mini-itx rigs could be very interesting.
If this would come with HBM(2) it would be super energy efficient and powerful enough for gaming in good condition, presets high, good framerate ...
Also with vulkan( and DX12 but we do not give a single fuck, right ?) the integrated graphics can easily and substantially help the discret GPU ...

Their actual plateforme FM2+ got pins physically dedicated on the CPU part, and the rest for the GPU part, so the best they can make on it as pure processor are what they call Athlon, that does not use the pins dedicated for GPU on the motherboard.
Their new plateform, FM4, could not have this problem. In this case they can make some strong APUs as mentionned above, and also very big pure CPUs reusing the pins that are used by the graphical part when you put an APU on your motherboard, with twice the physicals cores(8 ? 12 ? 16 ?) ...
But this last idea is pure speculation.

*edit : The maximum transistor count with the 14nm process is around 15 Billion.
We won't see any chip with that count at the launch of the process, but at the end of his cycle we should be seeing some monster GPU reaching it, as it happenned with the 28nm process.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By Cheeseness, 14 March 2016 at 10:37 am UTC Likes: 1

Quoting: TheBoss
QuoteThis might also explain the initially larger Linux shares around March 2013 when many Linux users used Steam for the first time on their Linux boxes and were thus more likely to receive the survey.
A very interesting point I don't think I ever thought about, and probably quite true too.

The Tux TF2 item landed at a time when acquiring timed-exclusive hats was something that people jumped on like mad. It had to have played at least a small role.

QuoteBoth the Humble data and the data from developers shows that on average, Linux users buy more games than the 1% that the Steam survey would suggest.

I still maintain that the Steam survey has significant shortcomings that make it hard to have much confidence in its results (nothing on the front has changed since this article.

Two things that have definitely changed across that period has been the number of available titles and the number of active Steam users. Taking the numbers that Valve publish at face value, if Linux users have maintained that 1% representation, then there's a pretty good amount of growth (even if it's not proportional growth) implied.

QuoteHumble helped bring many games to Linux.

I'd not spotted that post from Humble. At the time I wrote my last article looking at cross-platform support in Humble Bundles, there had been 59 Linux debuts in Humble's promotions between May 2010 and December 2012. Of those, the majority had been ported internally by the studios that created them (that includes stuff created using engines/tech that already had Linux support).

Humble's stances since have sapped my motivation and I no longer feel like I'm the best person to chase the data, but unless they've released another 30 odd titles that I don't know about before October 2014, that post's assertion that Humble's in-house developed ports (ports done by employees or contractors of Humble) have hit triple digits is false, and the misrepresentation gives me further reason to be disappointed.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By neowiz73, 14 March 2016 at 10:33 am UTC Likes: 2

as long as development stays strong with the adoption of Vulkan then Linux has nothing to worry about. but in order to see significant change though there will need to be some undeniable reasons for people to look into switching to Linux.
Although I have seen some steady small numbers showing up in the "Eye Candy Linux" Community on Google+ that have said they just started using Linux and wanted help. I see this more often in the Ubuntu and Linux Mint community on Google+ there are people constantly looking into the other alternatives on the market.
the linux community as a whole seems to be really helpful so far towards newbies. Plus I've noticed Dell is starting to show a couple of additional Linux laptops.
We are literally at the very beginning of a possible breakthrough in technology and innovation because of more companies that are starting to take Linux a bit more seriously. e.g. Nvidia with their brand of self driving cars.
I can't wait for the GDC coming up soon. This should be interesting.

How big is Linux gaming? Some estimates
By Eike, 14 March 2016 at 10:27 am UTC

That's a very interesting write up, thank you!

I've got two machines at home at the moment where one didn't ever run Steam (built a Debian box for my future mother-in-law) and the other one probably didn't either (my fiancée's Debian box). I'll give it a try today, let's see if we can get a survey popup...