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Why I think we should stop recommending Ubuntu to new users coming from Windows
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CatKiller 26 Nov, 2021
Quoting: Tom BUbuntu makes it more difficult than other distros to update the kernel, mesa and various other packages which improve hardware support and performance. When you do want to do a kernel upgrade you have to do a dist-upgrade which can cause its own set of problems.
Nonsense. "Just wait a bit" isn't "more difficult than other distros." The kernel and Mesa get regularly updated on LTS releases through the Hardware Enablement Stack. And should a user particularly want newer versions sooner than that, adding a PPA for either is exactly the same as adding a PPA for any other software.
denyasis 27 Nov, 2021
Quoting: slaapliedje
Quoting: Dennis_Payne
Quoting: denyasisI end by saying I don't think this actually solves the problem of user not being familiar with Linux. We're mostly gamers here, how do you learn a new game?

What Linux needs more than anything is a proper tutorial. Built into the system on first run. Opt-out.
Fedora already has that. I haven't used it so I don't know if it is any good.
Gbome in general has this, it is just that Fedora has it set up to run on first boot, qs the installer itself then creates the first user.
Debian has it packaged, but weirdly does not install it with GNOME under Tasksel.

Nice! I must admit the last time I've had a tutorial run on first run after an install was a while ago and it was not more than a splash screen.

I'd still argue any tutorial should be opt-out. Advanced users like us can skip it, but to be honest, I'd imagine most of us are self taught (looking at the comments).... So the chances of fundamental knowledge gaps are high enough that we could possibly see some benefit, especially when switching to a new DE or distro with a different packager.
slaapliedje 27 Nov, 2021
Quoting: denyasis
Quoting: slaapliedje
Quoting: Dennis_Payne
Quoting: denyasisI end by saying I don't think this actually solves the problem of user not being familiar with Linux. We're mostly gamers here, how do you learn a new game?

What Linux needs more than anything is a proper tutorial. Built into the system on first run. Opt-out.
Fedora already has that. I haven't used it so I don't know if it is any good.
Gbome in general has this, it is just that Fedora has it set up to run on first boot, qs the installer itself then creates the first user.
Debian has it packaged, but weirdly does not install it with GNOME under Tasksel.

Nice! I must admit the last time I've had a tutorial run on first run after an install was a while ago and it was not more than a splash screen.

I'd still argue any tutorial should be opt-out. Advanced users like us can skip it, but to be honest, I'd imagine most of us are self taught (looking at the comments).... So the chances of fundamental knowledge gaps are high enough that we could possibly see some benefit, especially when switching to a new DE or distro with a different packager.
For Gnome-Shell, someone who hates on it or has never really use it... should for sure do the tutorial and learn the keyboard shortcuts! There was this huge misunderstanding of it when it first came out that it was all about the touch screen experience (which is okay-ish). The fact of the matter is, they made it so it's incredibly easy to navigate with keyboard shortcuts, mouse, or touch screen. The thing stays out of the way, with a simple clock and some notification stuff. I used one of the versions of Fedora after it first started getting stable and got used to the flow of how everything worked and have loved it since. Not that I've always agreed with their choices of development, but I've liked it a lot more than Gnome 2 since I understood what they were trying to do with it.

So you're right, there is likely a lot of gaps that are missing. Especially for people who tried to learn Gnome years back, and thought it really sucked and never bothered to try it out here and there. I try to do that with KDE and run it like a week here or there each year... still end up going back to Gnome.

Edit: There is a package in Debian called gnome-initial-setup. Guessing that's the one that Debian never bothers to install, that likely should be there.

Last edited by slaapliedje on 27 November 2021 at 8:26 am UTC
denyasis 27 Nov, 2021
Quoting: slaapliedje
Quoting: denyasis
Quoting: slaapliedje
Quoting: Dennis_Payne
Quoting: denyasisI end by saying I don't think this actually solves the problem of user not being familiar with Linux. We're mostly gamers here, how do you learn a new game?

What Linux needs more than anything is a proper tutorial. Built into the system on first run. Opt-out.
Fedora already has that. I haven't used it so I don't know if it is any good.
Gbome in general has this, it is just that Fedora has it set up to run on first boot, qs the installer itself then creates the first user.
Debian has it packaged, but weirdly does not install it with GNOME under Tasksel.

Nice! I must admit the last time I've had a tutorial run on first run after an install was a while ago and it was not more than a splash screen.

I'd still argue any tutorial should be opt-out. Advanced users like us can skip it, but to be honest, I'd imagine most of us are self taught (looking at the comments).... So the chances of fundamental knowledge gaps are high enough that we could possibly see some benefit, especially when switching to a new DE or distro with a different packager.
For Gnome-Shell, someone who hates on it or has never really use it... should for sure do the tutorial and learn the keyboard shortcuts! There was this huge misunderstanding of it when it first came out that it was all about the touch screen experience (which is okay-ish). The fact of the matter is, they made it so it's incredibly easy to navigate with keyboard shortcuts, mouse, or touch screen. The thing stays out of the way, with a simple clock and some notification stuff. I used one of the versions of Fedora after it first started getting stable and got used to the flow of how everything worked and have loved it since. Not that I've always agreed with their choices of development, but I've liked it a lot more than Gnome 2 since I understood what they were trying to do with it.

So you're right, there is likely a lot of gaps that are missing. Especially for people who tried to learn Gnome years back, and thought it really sucked and never bothered to try it out here and there. I try to do that with KDE and run it like a week here or there each year... still end up going back to Gnome.

Edit: There is a package in Debian called gnome-initial-setup. Guessing that's the one that Debian never bothers to install, that likely should be there.

Totally fair. I'm not familiar with gnome after 2, having moved to XFCE. I'll even admit, I have KDE on my PC since 2018. Never really used it before that. Still barely know how it works. Basically, if I run into something, I'll have to Google and trust the ultimate Linux resources: Some Guy's Blog. I hopefully have a basic enough understanding of Linux to recognize if the advice is fishy, but I really can't hold a new user to that.
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