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Cheese talks - Humble Bundle

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Cheese our resident forum member talked to himself (he does that a lot..just kidding) and a couple other big names like Notch (Minecraft creator) about the Humble Bundles. Cheese is the creator of the amazing Humble Visualisations page (you should all take note of that page!) which was the starting point for his big article titled "Cheese talks to himself and others (about humble bundle statistics)".

QuoteThis article was written to explore what statistics gathered from the Humble Indie Bundle promotions might indicate. Unlike the Humble Visualisations (a collection of additional statistics and graphs derived from those shown on the Humble Bundle website), this article contains information drawn from non-official sources as well as some Blatant Opinions.

In addition to my own thoughts, I've also gathered some quotes and anecdotes from top Humble Bundle contributors. Whilst their opinions may not represent the bulk of Humble Bundle purchasers (or myself for that matter), I do believe that they as individuals represent a significant amount of inspiration to others and have helped the Humble Bundle promotions grow and thrive.

An exert from the end of article sums up exactly how the Linux gaming scene has changed (I summed up 2011 in a post of my own titled - "Happy new year, a review of 2011" which basically points out a similar thing - we are getting noticed by developers).

QuoteThere are some (perhaps many) Linux users who purchase bundles merely because the games have Linux support, and while this may help the Linux market gain broader recognition, it is not a sustainable purchasing habit. With the Humble Bundle promotions rolling out Linux titles, Desura providing a publishing platform, and larger scale projects providing Linux support (such as the Double Fine Adventure, Wasteland 2, Trine 2, Oil Rush, Overgrowth, Tomes of Mephistopheles and Dilogus: The Winds of War), the principled Linux gamer will soon need to evolve into the discerning Linux gamer (or have a much larger disposable income than gamers on other platforms).

When Indie devs starting flowing in and the HIB's started appearing I was one of those buy just because it supports Linux, but now...my word there are A LOT of games flowing into our stream now that I just have to watch my wallet.

So what do you all think of the HIB's nowadays, have your views on them changed? Have your purchasing habits changed since the sudden flow of games being ported? Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Tags: Misc
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I am the owner of GamingOnLinux. After discovering Linux back in the days of Mandrake in 2003, I constantly came back to check on the progress of Linux until Ubuntu appeared on the scene and it helped me to really love it. You can reach me easily by emailing GamingOnLinux directly. Find me on Mastodon.
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Alex V.Sharp Apr 14, 2012
Quoting: "liamdawe, post: 4039, member: 1"So what do you all think of the HIB's nowadays, have your views on them changed? Have your purchasing habits changed since the sudden flow of games being ported?
A rough translation of a Serbian street-saying: "Money isn't a problem; can't be when we have none" :rolleyes:
So to answer the latter question: I still buy only when I have something to spend, and I will spend on what I believe I will be playing. Doesn't mean I wouldn't support a developer's game in some other way; like promoting, providing feedback or whatever. It only means I can't be expected to buy ever single one of em, especially those pricier ones. That would be just silly, and would encourage them to be lazy imo, knowing that something will sell just because it has a Linux port.

As for the HIBs, I'm honestly a bit worried. The diversity of the included genres seems to have diminished since Android got involved. When talking specifically about Linux, there has been some talk about developers not updating their games in the store, but I haven't researched enough to confirm this. However, taking into account that so many of them haven't responded to the constant asking for Desura keys even though their games are already there, and yet they still provide Steam keys, then it's understandable why I'm so sceptical. It was a good start, yet where it's heading... I just don't know... :(
Hamish Apr 14, 2012
I do think we are moving a bit beyond Humble Bundle at this point... though we should not get ahead of ourselves. We still have a lot to prove.

However, the Humble Bundles are no longer what they were a year ago. They are definitely not the only game in town. And, as Alex has said, they do seem to be getting kind of narrow minded lately. I learned recently that Basilisk Games has been having the same troubles that Kot-in-Action Creative Artel did in trying to get the Bundle guys to put their games in a bundle and to take them seriously. This is happening despite the fact that (and lets be honest) they have taken on some rather stupid ideas when it is Jeffery Rosen's friends that were behind it.

And it is true that if we are going to grow we need to expand beyond the bundles. And we are doing that. There are all those titles that Cheeseness mentioned, as well as some he did not including Deep Black: Reloaded, Depth Hunter, Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs, and other less flashy entrants. We just need to keep the mommentum going.

The Bundles are still a large part of that of course. But I am happy for the diversity. :)
Bumadar Apr 15, 2012
Besides the competition, which would be good if they did linux games, the humble bundle themselves are getting to frequently released and thus removing some of the "special" from it. I also feel that mixing android and desktop games, or maybe should I say apps and games, won't work in the long run. There are some exceptions like the Cogs which works great on tablet or desktop but others like Snuggle Truck are best for a tablet while Avadon is simply best played on a desktop.

It's sad to hear Basilisk has the same problem as Kot had, good for KoT though that he does not stand alone anymore in this.

As for Liam's question, has my view changed, it has over time, a few things contributed to that:
- KoT story
- the dropping of desura keys (yes its the developers thing but HiB tells them to make a linux client so it can tell them to also add desura)
- to many bundles to little standout games in them

And lets not forget kickstarter eating into my gaming budget.
Nerv Apr 15, 2012
Quoting: "liamdawe, post: 4039, member: 1"So what do you all think of the HIB's nowadays, have your views on them changed? Have your purchasing habits changed since the sudden flow of games being ported?

I personally have grown somewhat disillusioned with the bundles over time. This is mainly for 2 reasons:
-Lack of Desura Keys
-Buggy Ports which are never updated

I am pretty sure these 2 issues are actually connected. Even though Linux brings in quiet a bit of money for the HIB (more than Mac apparently) it still feels like its a third class citizen for many of the developers. I am pretty sure some of them have no interest in linux aside from being able to get their game in the bundle. This leads to a port which is never updated, and not available anywhere after the bundle is finished. Quiet a few HIB games have had some issues on my system for which thankfully a workaround or fix is available on icculus bug-tracker, but is never fixed in a follow up release of the game. *Note that this is not meant as a criticism of icculus, who does an astounding number of ports in a quick time frame, but at the developers who have no plans of ever supporting their Linux release. This is also probably the reason most of the games never end up on Desura, where people would expect more support post release.*
I don't know or really care how much bad blood because of the Indy Royale Bundles also contributed to the lack of Desura Keys, but the way I understand it Desura doesn't make money from having their keys handed out, and are still very much willing to have them included in the HIBs.

I have still bought all the bundles but have been contributing less (still always above average), and have been giving more to charity and less to HIB and developers. The last 2 bundles I basically only bought for my android tablet and I will probably skip the next bundle and only buy the games when (if) they get a Desura release.
Cheeseness Apr 15, 2012
For anybody who's interested, the [URL='http://cheesetalks.twolofbees.com/humbleStats.php#update']article[/URL] has been updated with some extra quotes from a top Humble Bundle contributor. The update also adds a couple more charts and tables, covering "separate price" values for games in the bundles, the impact of bundle frequency on total revenue, and some extra thoughts on what the Linux averages might mean (I don't believe that they're indicative of Linux users paying more - dun dun dun!).

[LEFT][URL='http://cheesetalks.twolofbees.com/humbleStats.php#update']A Humble Update[/URL][/LEFT]

In answer to Liam's question, I don't think I have as many concerns regarding the Humble Bundle promotions as I did when I sent a lengthy email to the Humble Bundle guys and got a lengthy reply from Jeffrey Rosen that addressed all of the issues that I saw as ways in which the Humble Bundle promotions had diminished over time. The biggest problems at the moment are branding issues. I think that at the moment, we're in a similar situation as we were when the Introversion bundle came out and everybody was asking themselves whether or not the Humble Bundle guys had changed and whether things were still moving in the same directions. As it turned out, the biggest problem was that people were trying to compare the branded, "non-indie" bundles with the Humble Indie Bundle promotions when the intention is that they are smaller, less prominent bundles that fill in the gaps. Likewise, we've had two Android bundles, and I've seen a lot of people saying that Humble Bundles don't have the same calibre of games anymore, which (to me) seems a little premature, since we haven't had a proper Humble Indie Bundle since last year, and we've had the Mojam event, which (again, to me) was a fantastic change of pace and a great initiative, even if cross-platform support was a little lacking.

As for the quality of the titles in the Android bundles, I am absolutely over the moon to be able to play Edge and Toki Tori natively, and (in addition to those two) Anomaly: Warzone Earth is a title that could stand proudly amongst any title that has been included in a Humble Indie Bundle. The second Android bundle had less titles that appealed to me, but I'm very happy to have discovered Zen Bound 2 (I'd never heard of the first game), which is a great game with high production values that stands out amidst the titles included in previous bundles. Remember that the focus for the Android bundles is getting these titles to the Android platform, so whilst I'm happy to admit they have comparatively small value to me (I don't have a phone), they do seem pretty worthwhile offerings in that respect.

The Desura keys thing is pretty disappointing, but I think it's up to us as members of the gaming community to tell developers that Desura is a platform that we want. The Humble Bundle guys don't require Steam support of any of the games that are included in promotions - it's just coincidence that most of them have been, and for them to dictate distribution methods means that they'll be exerting an inappropriate level of control over the game vendor/distribution industry. That said, it really would be nice to see a bit more co-operation between them. I've been told that the Humble Bundle guys actively worked with the Desura guys to try to get titles onto Desura in time for inclusion in bundles, but that doesn't seem to be happening anymore.

The only other concern I have at the moment is that games don't seem to be being maintained, but that's awfully hard to track as I don't normally remember to visit the Humble Bundle download pages to check for new versions, and when I've organised a workaround, I stop thinking about fixes (perfect example is And Yet It Moves, which has or had some problem with profile paths and capitalisation. A quick edit of a config file fixed the problem for me, and I completely forgot about it until I had to install it again six months later). Again, I think that's something that gamers need to be putting pressure onto developers for, not the Humble Bundle guys.

Bumadar, do you have a source for Basilisk's negative experiences that you can share?
Hamish Apr 15, 2012
Quoting: "Cheeseness, post: 4058, member: 122"Bumadar, do you have a source for Basilisk's negative experiences that you can share?

Actually, it is me who had posted about that. Here are some quotes:

QuoteMany of you may also remember our efforts earlier this year to get Humble Bundle to give us a spot. We are still trying to convince them that we'd be a great addition, so don't be afraid to send them an email to let them know you want to see us included in the next bundle.


QuoteI'll say it again: keep pestering the Humble people!! We'd love to be part of the next Bundle and we'll put in some cool extras. We just need to convince them.


All of this being patently bizarre, since these are well thought out, high production, genuinely Indie games that have exceptional cross-platform support. The fact they have had to beg their case to even consider getting the nod seems kind of insulting.
Cheeseness Apr 15, 2012
Quoting: "Hamish, post: 4064, member: 6"Actually, it is me who had posted about that.

Oops, sorry. I didn't scroll up fair enough >_<

Hmm, OK, so the complaints are about not being included in a bundle rather than feeling that they had been taken advantage of regarding their cut.

I imagine that the Humble Bundle guys are inundated with game requests and have a schedule lined up that would make it difficult for any developers to feel like they'd gotten a timely response. Is criticising the Humble Bundle guys for not including a game a legitimate criticism? Not making excuses for them, but I feel like we'd need to know what other titles Basilisk were up against before being able to make an assertion regarding whether or not it's fair that a game wasn't included.
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