Free Valve Games For Debian Developers

liamdawe: I don't mind the other thread, but the amount of nonsense said above (like comparing Steam client with a browser and claiming that Steam has no DRM because of that) is just puzzling.

Caldazar: I think I explained it already. I don't mind downloading stuff. I mind inability to make backups which are independent of the service and its DRMed client. Please note the difference.

Quoting: Quote from Hamish

Quoting: Quote from liamdaweThe desura client doesnt let you you download windows games.

No, but Desura does, thanks to the fact that you can download games straight from the webstore. I for one really do appreciate this feature, and do find Steam lacking for not having it, although I do agree that that in of itself is not DRM; that being said, I hate having to install unnecessary software just to get where I need, and I am very glad Desura offers this.

I think having to install some closed source software to make a download is DRM, while you could argue it isn't doing anything else than downloading and installing the game, I don't think so and we can't be sure. Comparing the Steam client to a web browser is absurd for this purpose since I can't substitute it with a browser. If it was just a web browser, why wouldn't Valve allow web downloads using other browsers and why some people seem so much against that option too?

The key codes, disk keys, and USB keys in the 90s were the same thing, little annoyances that you may find they're not so, but DRM anyway. Disk keys were easy to copy most of the times but you had to use the correct tool, you might think it's not DRM then, but for the legitimate user that is trying to make a simple backup it's DRM. The publisher plugs some wires trying to have a bit or a lot of control over your downloads/computer/software/gaming/etc. It may succeed or not, but a publisher trying to sell DRM will try harder in the next update maybe. Valve is going that route although it hasn't pushed too hard for you to be annoyed, but maybe in the future. I'm already annoyed by their silly requirements.

I think we basically disagree on the definition of DRM, while I think DRM is any form of control on the use of the game by any means, some of you may think it's just DRM when it does so in a way that annoys you. The second definition is highly subjective, it could annoy you the server not responding, your inability to copy your game files or whatever.

Some of you have fallen so much in love with Valve that it seems you don't want to hear it has annoyances also called DRM.

Quoting: Quote from liamdaweHamish, it is the developers choice, Steam offering up their own doesn't mean a developer has to use it. It is a matter of simple fact that it is a developers choice to use DRM on Steam or not.

And really people, this article is nothing to do with DRM, it's about free games, take a chill pill guys?

It's remarkable the fact that free (in Gabe's mind) hasn't the same meaning than free (in DD's minds).

Sorry, I had already written my last comment before seeing yours, anyway, one more comment after seven pages of offtopic talk isn't that bad I guess.

Quoting: Quote from liamdaweAnd really people, this article is nothing to do with DRM, it's about free games, take a chill pill guys?

Amen.

Quoting: Quote from ShmerCaldazar: I think I explained it already. I don't mind downloading stuff. I mind inability to make backups which are independent of the service and its DRMed client. Please note the difference.

Ok, you said "install and run".
Now, the first download / install is done with the steam client.

Aside from that, a lot of Steam games are DRM free. As in just copy the game folder out of the steam folder, back it up, uninstall steam put the game wherever you want and start it from there.

Or, in the words of Arcen games for example

QuotePurchasing from our site or elsewhere gets you a Steam key for redemption inside the Steam Client.  The Steam Client allow you to download and update the game.  However, if you wish to take the game "on the go," or otherwise back it up for archival purposes, you can simply copy the game files out of your steam folder and they will remain fully functional even without Steam.

Anyway, my gripe with your post was less about DRM itself but that yet another awesome move from Valve towards Linux folks triggered nothing but completely unrelated (and mostly undeserved) criticism from you.
This increasingly reads as if you just can't stand any move of Valve towards us free 1%ers, much less news about it, because it let's another favourite company of yours look more old-fashioned-dinosaur with every month.

Yeah, no one likes DRM of any form, still I cannot help but watch in awe how heavily Valve ties itself to the smallest, most insignificant desktop-crowd they could find, betting the whole damn company on ridiculously bad odds.
Why? Because we're free over here and that's exactly what Valve is trying to become. One of us.
Such moves are welcome, not "weird"!

Caldazar: Point is, I don't consider this move from Valve to be positive. It's just a bait to use their DRMed service more. Positive move from them (of this kind) would be starting offering DRM-free games. That's why my criticism was not really off-topic.

However their efforts to improve the quality of drivers, working on debuggers and so on are positive moves in contrast to this one.

Quoting: Quote from ShmerlFor those who compared Steam client with browsers - you are wrong. Is Steam client open source? Even if it doesn't need to connect to the server to reinstall a backup (which I doubt, it most probably does need to connect to the server), where can you get that client if Steam goes bust? It's closed and proprietary. So if Steam closes down you lose the service and the client. So comparison with the browser goes out of the window.

There are two faulty premises underlying this post:

1) For a game to be DRM free the software you use to download it has to be open source .

This is just an arbitrary rule you have invented without any real reasoning behind it. This has the absurd consequence that if a DRM free game available on say both GOG and Steam is bit for bit identical on both services(Like say I tested with Shadow Warrior on GOG vs Shadow Warrior Classic on Steam) then it suddenly becomes DRMed if you happen to download it with Steam. Even though every single bit in every single file is 100% identical. This is obviously absurd.

2) Browers are open source.

This is not true as a general rule. Some are. Some aren't. Internet Explorer isn't. Safari isn't. Opera isn't. Can a game downloaded by Chrome be DRM free yet be DRMed if the exact same game is downloaded using for example Internet Explorer? What if you downloaded a game the day before the first open source browser was released would that then be DRMed on that day but the 100% identical copy you downloaded with that open source browser the very next day be DRM free?

"So if Steam closes down you lose the service and the client. So comparison with the browser goes out of the window."

The same happens if GOG shuts down its service and pulls the plug on its servers or if a game is only a available via a .torrent file from the publisher and/or developer and it is no longer being seeded or if my country decides to ban all torrents even if the distribution is authorized by the copyright holders. Browsers and DD clients aren't the only ways to distribute games digitally they are only perhaps the most common. But there are also at least FTP clients and torrent clients. What DRM free gaming enables is that even if nobody can buy new/additional copies of a game, those have already bought and downloaded a game can keep on using it forever.  

The availability of future downloads is independent of the DRM status of the game being downloaded. A DRM free game may no longer be available for download for various reasons. For example if a publishers only releases DRM free games as a matter of principle but they are only available to download using standard browsers(and download managers) from its website then those games will become unavailable if that websites gets taken of the net due to the publisher going bankrupt. This won't make the games any less DRM free.

"Even if it doesn't need to connect to the server to reinstall a backup (which I doubt, it most probably does need to connect to the server)"

With the DRM free games on Steam you can take a backup without needing the Steam client at all. I literally copy pasted my copy of HL2 from my desktop onto to blank DVD, put that DVD in my primary laptop, copied its contents onto the laptop and ran the game on both computers simultaneously. This worked fine, without even the smallest hitch.

What I want to know from you is how can a game that doesn't have a single line of code implementing any kind of DRM feature either directly or indirectly(by calling libraries or executing external code) ever be considered a DRMed game? 

Quoting: Quote from KristianThere are two faulty premises underlying this post:

1) For a game to be DRM free the software you use to download it has to be open source .

No, that wasn't the point. For the game to be DRM free it needs to be installable DRM free. So, once you download it, you should have a package / archive which you should be able to install independently. Let's see how it works with Steam if you compare it to the browser. (I'm not talking about manual copying of directories which can work sometimes, I'm talking about official backup).

1. You buy a game and make a backup (offical Steam one).
2. Steam service closes down.
3. You lose access to the service, and let's say to the client as well (for example you have a new system). All you have is the actual backup.
4. You try installing your backed-up game and... It requires a client you have no way to get. Not only that, even if you get it, to restore the game it needs to connect to a service which doesn't exist anymore. That's it - no restore. Comparison to the browser is completely irrelevant, since once you download a package / archive, you store it and can unpack it at any time.

The rest of your post wasn't to the point of what I was saying.

Quoting: Quote from Shmerl

Quoting: Quote from KristianThere are two faulty premises underlying this post:

1) For a game to be DRM free the software you use to download it has to be open source .

No, that wasn't the point. For the game to be DRM free it needs to be installable DRM free. So, once you download it, you should have a package / archive which you should be able to install independently. Let's see how it works with Steam if you compare it to the browser.

1. You buy a game and make a backup (offical Steam one).
2. Steam service closes down.
3. You lose access to the service, and let's say to the client as well, for example you have a new system).
4. You try installing your backed-up game and... It requires a client you have no way to get. Not only that, even if you get it, to restore the game it needs to connect to a service which doesn't exist anymore. That's it - no restore.

The rest of your post wasn't to the point of what I was saying.

Shmerl that is simply NOT how it works for those games on Steam that are DRM free. You are attacking a strawman, try addressing what I said about Half-Life 2 for examlel. You can easily download games with DRM using a browser if they are uploaded that way or download a DRM free game using a digital download client if they are uploaded that way.  How games are distributed(and the pros and cons of various ways of doing so) and whether a game is DRM free or not are two totally different unrelated questions. If you as developer wanted to you could distribute a DRM free game by printing out its source code and having people scan it in and compile it.

"For the game to be DRM free it needs to be installable DRM free. So, once you download it, you should have a package / archive which you should be able to install independently."

For a game to be DRM free its code must not contain any DRM, that is any technical measures preventing copying or requiring any kind of authentication or validation for use. That is it. A logical consequence of this is that you can always create any installers, packages or backups of your game if you want to once you have downloaded it. There are no technical limitations on how many such backups/copies you can create or how many instances of the game you can run on how many machines(Simultaneously or nor, offline or online). This is exactly the situation with Half-Life 2, it only being available for (official, legal) download from Steam does NOT change that. 

Your contention that is impossible to distribute DRM free games on Steam has been thoroughly refuted. 

Kristian: Can you please focus on the installation step? I didn't say anything about distribution in the last few posts. If you are sure installation on Steam is DRM free, can you please explain how it works? You can start from after the step 3 in my list above, and explain where it was wrong.