Valve Rep Confirms Why Some Games Have Their SteamOS Icon Removed

It's frustrating, I understand that, but it's a necessary move for Valve. Steam Machines are meant to compete with consoles, they have to have the same level of idiot-proofing and convenience as consoles. Anything and everything that's external to the base SteamOS system libraries that's necessary for a game to run needs to be included in the game setup itself. Plain and simple, mom needs to be able to pick a Steam Machine off the shelf at her local Walmart, and when Little Johnny unpacks the Steam Machine and plugs it in, every single game that has a SteamOS icon needs to work out of the box with zero extra steps, period.

As for the multiple icon idea, a tux icon if the game works on Linux and an additional SteamOS icon if the game works on SteamOS out of the box, I'm all for that, provided that Valve makes that abundantly clear on their storefront so that there is no confusion.

Quoting: liamdaweHow would you install Java (or anything other outside lib) on SteamOS with a Steam Controller? You don't. It would require adding in a mouse and keyboard, going to desktop mode and generally not a good experience.

Maybe Valve should make a graphical frontend for installing such dependencies then? And probably include a way for us to know which games work 'out-of-the-box' and which need additional dependencies.

Quoting: AnxiousInfusion

Quoting: alexJava is however a big problem since Minecraft for one is using it. Maybe you could compile it using GCJ:

https://gcc.gnu.org/java/

I have never tried but with some minor "porting" it might compile. Or maybe they could make the Steam Runtime include Java?

Minecraft was never made available on Steam. Minecraft Storymode, yes but that's a different game. And I don't see Java being included in the Steam runtime any time soon because legal issues.

OpenJDK is the standard implementation nowadays and released under GPL with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL_linking_exception

Quoting: Comandante oardoWell.. As a former Windows XP SP3 user, I want linux apps that I can download, install and run with a single click... everything must run out of the box.. The Linux game devs have a very long path to go if they want a massive migration.

Actually that is already the case with most games on Steam ;)

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: ripperThe question is how developers can verify that their games don't rely on external dependencies.

Wouldn't simply testing on a fresh install of SteamOS do the job?

No. SteamOS is just another Debian installation, it still has many system libraries installed. Many of those libraries might not be available on other distributions, at least not by default. Of course, yes, this would verify it works on SteamOS well, but just on SteamOS. According to Valve reply, SteamOS compatibility is not enough, there has to be no dependency on the host system (which is a great message for us, they don't care just about SteamOS, they want the game run out of the box everywhere).

Quoting: ripper

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: ripperThe question is how developers can verify that their games don't rely on external dependencies.

Wouldn't simply testing on a fresh install of SteamOS do the job?

No. SteamOS is just another Debian installation, it still has many system libraries installed. Many of those libraries might not be available on other distributions, at least not by default. Of course, yes, this would verify it works on SteamOS well, but just on SteamOS.

Thanks for stating the obvious. ;) I'm still not convinced this is such a big problem. Developers are very likely to know (or they can easily find out) the direct dependencies of their games, and it's trivial to check if these libraries are included in the Steam Runtime.

Quoting: ripperAccording to Valve reply, SteamOS compatibility is not enough, there has to be no dependency on the host system (which is a great message for us, they don't care just about SteamOS, they want the game run out of the box everywhere).

But I don't see Valve denying SteamOS listings for games that work out of the box on SteamOS and Ubuntu, or whatever Steam officially supports. Everywhere sounds nice, but -- given the nature of Linux -- a bit optimistic and impossible to guarantee or enforce.

Quoting: GuestThis is fantastic news! It's really great that they are trying to make sure all game dependencies are contained in the game libraries or the Steam runtime.

By doing this, Valve is helping push for proper Linux support by making sure games are distro-agnostic. It will also make it easier for them when they roll out SteamOS updates and to make sure it'll work on SteamOS as well as other distros.

This is bullshit.

On Arch (or any other rolling release distro for that matter) I will still have to delete all steam-libs and use my own, because the rest of the system was updated and the libs are incompatible with, say, a new version of mesa.

Quoting: MaelraneThis is bullshit.

On Arch (or any other rolling release distro for that matter) I will still have to delete all steam-libs and use my own, because the rest of the system was updated and the libs are incompatible with, say, a new version of mesa.

Do you have a solution? You use a distro that by nature does not provide a stable, unchanging base for applications to rely on. There's no way any pre-built, closed source software can reliably target such a platform unless they statically include absolutely everything or some such madness. There's a reason Steam -- or pretty much any commercial software package for that matter -- does not officially support rolling release distributions. The rolling release model (and the source based build-it-yourself model of Arch, Gentoo and co.) does have its advantages, but this isn't one of them. There's always a trade-off.

Quoting: tuubiDo you have a solution?

Yes, I have a solution (actually 2), it's (one of them) on page one of this thread/discussion. Add another icon. One for linux, one for SteamOS (console-like) and be done with it.

As SteamOS is a Debian-derivate it shouldn't be too hard to make it work on Ubuntu out of the box.

Other distros are not supported anyway (well, maybe fedora, no idea, don't care)

But just removing the icon, letting us try to figure out if a game is even available on Linux (! Desktop Linux that is!) is ridiculous. If I have to do that I may as well not buy anything on Steam, because I can go to GoG or another shop and see it there.

But, ya, I do have another solution: Integrate with the Nix-package-manager!

Quoting: tuubiYou use a distro that by nature does not provide a stable, unchanging base for applications to rely on. There's no way any pre-built, closed source software can reliably target such a platform unless they statically include absolutely everything or some such madness. There's a reason Steam -- or pretty much any commercial software package for that matter -- does not officially support rolling release distributions. The rolling release model (and the source based build-it-yourself model of Arch, Gentoo and co.) does have its advantages, but this isn't one of them. There's always a trade-off.

I am not talking about them fixing my shit or supporting my decision to use a rolling-release-distribution.

I am well aware off all these "problems" (and they are no trade-off to me, they are an advantage in my book and one of the reasons I switched to Arch, after years of searching the perfect distribution for me)

I am talking about them removing icons, effectively hindering me buying games on/from their store because I now have to check elsewhere if the game actually runs on Linux.

Let alone the thing that may purchase may now be not counted as towards Linux, although I bought the game on Linux and played it on Linux.

If they are removing the steamOS icons, can they at least put the Linux icons back?