Epic Games founder thinks Microsoft will essentially break Steam in later versions of Windows 10

In this case the use of "PC" can be seen as correct: If Microsoft succeeds to close the software part of PC's, why keep the hardware open so people can escape to Linux? Microsoft ARM based hardware is already closed.

Slowly, over the next five years, they will force-patch Windows 10 to make Steam progressively worse and more broken. They’ll never completely break it, but will continue to break it until, in five years, people are so fed up that Steam is buggy that the Windows Store seems like an ideal alternative.

So they'll inject bugs into the Steam client, which will not only deter people from buying games on the Steam storefront, but also make the individual games they've bought over Steam perform worse?

I think what he's trying (clumsily) to allude to is an iOS-style prohibition on non-store binaries altogether -- but that would be a huge move, much bigger than games, or Steam, or what have you. Mac users have been alarmed about this ever since Mountain Lion introduced the option to block out-of-store binaries in System Preferences. I don't know whether that's become the default option now (haven't used a Mac since 'Mavericks' ) but even Apple doesn't seem to be taking that extreme route in their desktop line.


Last edited by walther von stolzing on 26 Jul 2016 at 6:58 pm UTC

I've been really disappointed in Epic with the development of Paragon. They used the Unreal engine that was supposed to be cross-platmorm compatible then added proprietary code and now they won't make a Linux version because they don't have the resources to test it and they're not sure they can port that proprietary code to Linux. It's the dumbest excuse I think they can make. So I can't see how they can make a statement like that about Microsoft when they are essentially doing the same thing. Agghhh!

In this case the use of "PC" can be seen as correct: If Microsoft succeeds to close the software part of PC's, why keep the hardware open so people can escape to Linux? Microsoft ARM based hardware is already closed.

No, he's specifically talking about Windows and Microsoft possibly forcing people to use the Windows store. It is not PC, it is Windows.

If the company that makes Unreal Engine, doesn't support Linux in the games they are releasing, then they must not be very confident in the cross platform capabilities of their engine. That would look very bad to me if I was looking for a cross platform game engine.

I blame the Mac vs PC commercials for starting the paradigm of calling all windows based systems "PCs".
Once people realize what's going on with MS and their shenanigans more people will start to adopt Linux full time.
When it comes to gamers though, it's going to boil down to "if game X is available on Linux". PC gaming has supposedly been dropping year over year and it's all moving towards consoles and Mobile now.

MS has been trying so hard to be like Apple over the past 10 years. Why?, because Apple makes more money than MS, despite being a closed system end to end. MS 2015 earnings vs Apple's 2015 earnings shows Apple making $29 billion more than MS. this was a $9 billion increase in profits from the year before for Apple, while MS has been showing rocky gains and losses.

Eventually if the Linux market share doesn't gain some decent headway the hardware manufacturers will start to only make server hardware compatible for Linux while desktop hardware will be more tailored for Windows at the rate things are going. This i dread the most. I truly hope this doesn't ever happen. But it definitely looks to be something MS would really like to see happen. How likely? is the big question.

I'm not talking about universal hardware that's sold to the build it yourself crowd like myself (we are the minority), although not an impossibility to run into issues with more hardware going forward when installing Linux. This is mainly on the end of the manufacturers like Dell, HP, etc...

If the company that makes Unreal Engine, doesn't support Linux in the games they are releasing, then they must not be very confident in the cross platform capabilities of their engine. That would look very bad to me if I was looking for a cross platform game engine.

Tbh, a huge part of making UE4 run on Linux (at least for the Editor) is done by the community, not Epic themselves. They are too busy focusing on Mobile and VR. It's really disappointing. We can not even use Marketplace content on Linux, because the launcher is not available! And why is it not? Because the launcher is proprietary and the community thus cannot port it and Epic is just too lazy to do it.
Imo, they don't give a s**t about cross platform and if they do they've done surprisingly little to show it.

So Tim foresees issues with Win10 and Steam. Good for him!
Now can he get his acts together and sell games directly without Steam and without any DRM? Two birds with one stone.
How can this kind of big company become such a cry-baby?


Last edited by zikzak on 26 Jul 2016 at 7:58 pm UTC

Tbh, a huge part of making UE4 run on Linux (at least for the Editor) is done by the community, not Epic themselves. They are too busy focusing on Mobile and VR. It's really disappointing. We can not even use Marketplace content on Linux, because the launcher is not available! And why is it not? Because the launcher is proprietary and the community thus cannot port it and Epic is just too lazy to do it.
Imo, they don't give a s**t about cross platform and if they do they've done surprisingly little to show it.

That's troubling since they have a Linux logo on the overview page.

I blame the Mac vs PC commercials for starting the paradigm of calling all windows based systems "PCs".

It started long before that. "PC" has been synonymous with Microsoft in one way or another for decades.


Last edited by Mountain Man on 26 Jul 2016 at 8:31 pm UTC

I blame the Mac vs PC commercials for starting the paradigm of calling all windows based systems "PCs".

It started long before that. "PC" has always been synonymous with Microsoft in one way or another for decades.

not as much, because before the commercials mainly I remember Windows PCs being thing, because Macs were being sold in stores and were referred to Mac PCs vs Windows PCs. But Steve Jobs wanted to make a distinct difference between the two with the commercials by simply stating Macs were *Macs* and Windows PCs were just PCs.


Last edited by neowiz73 on 26 Jul 2016 at 8:36 pm UTC

So they'll inject bugs into the Steam client, which will not only deter people from buying games on the Steam storefront, but also make the individual games they've bought over Steam perform worse?

No, I think what he is trying to say is that Windows will make several quiet changes over time, that are never documented, to the underlying Windows libraries that Steam has to link into for things. Like how Steam has to create a process for launching as well as interaction with the file system and updating registry keys.

For instance there might be more bug reports like this:
[http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/558750544052889885/](http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/558750544052889885/)

Spoiler, click me

I believe I may have found a "bug" in the Steam Client. Deleting game content doesn't activate Windows' uninstall of that game. I presume it just, you know, deletes the game's content. The issue is that there is a registry key, InstallLocation in LocalMachine\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\Steam App 244210 (Assetto Corsa in my case) which remains after Steam has deleted the game files.

Reinstalling the game through steam does _not_ update this key.

If you delete the game content, that registry key remains. Then if you reinstall the game AND CHANGE THE LOCATION OF THE INSTALL, the game gets installed and that key is not updated.

I don't even know if you'd consider this a bug but since I came across it, I figured I might as well report it.

Something like that would be like the strategy that Microsoft has long employed with the OOXML document format they use for microsoft office. Even though Microsoft advertises its OOXML format as an "open" standard they make a lot of undetectable tweaks to their implementation of it so that other office software like libreoffice can't become completely compliant with the format. Hence why many documents made in Microsoft Office will likely never render correctly in libreoffice.

People will stop using the term "PC" to mean "Windows", as soon as people stop using the term "Linux" to mean "GNU/Linux".

I still say Linux, so it might take a while.

So they'll inject bugs into the Steam client, which will not only deter people from buying games on the Steam storefront, but also make the individual games they've bought over Steam perform worse?

No, I think what he is trying to say is that Windows will make several quiet changes over time, that are never documented, to the underlying Windows libraries that Steam has to link into for things.

Still, that would be sabotaging just the client. As long as they don't turn windows into a complete black box, Valve could work around such nuisances.

The biggest threat would be a ban on all non-M$-store binaries on windows; though that doesn't seem likely.

A really dirty trick M$ could play, though, would be to limit the use of DX12 only on UWP (or whatever it's called) applications. In that case, M$ wouldn't even have to bother sabotaging Valve; since Steam would thus be rendered irrelevant for new games, as long as those don't use Vulkan, of course.


Last edited by walther von stolzing on 26 Jul 2016 at 9:35 pm UTC

But, but there's a strong alternative with wide hardware support, big community, and lots of developers and publishers behind it! You joking Mr. Sweeney this isn't happening!

I blame the Mac vs PC commercials for starting the paradigm of calling all windows based systems "PCs".

Probably intentional. Apple want to take market share from Microsoft, but they'd certainly prefer to do that while not giving any to Linux. Characterizing things in that very binary way where PC hardware appears to == MS in the same way that Mac hardware really does == Mac OS (almost) helps them freeze Linux out.

Well, on the plus side, if Mr. Sweeney is right, I expect the Valve people will at some point notice it. And if Gabe and the Valve people conclude MS is back to trying to screw with them, we can anticipate SteamOS and the Steam Machine to be on the front burner again.

In this case the use of "PC" can be seen as correct: If Microsoft succeeds to close the software part of PC's, why keep the hardware open so people can escape to Linux? Microsoft ARM based hardware is already closed.

No, he's specifically talking about Windows and Microsoft possibly forcing people to use the Windows store. It is not PC, it is Windows.

Also Microsoft does not own the hardware platform, which means they have no way of closing it down. They might try if they're ever desperate enough, but that'll fail miserably. Not that their current antics with W10 don't reek of desperation already.

MS has been trying so hard to be like Apple over the past 10 years. Why?, because Apple makes more money than MS, despite being a closed system end to end.

These numbers have very little to do with the relevant market segment, which is desktop/gaming computers. This is where Windows still dominates, and Mac shows no indication of becoming a real threat.


Last edited by tuubi on 26 Jul 2016 at 11:33 pm UTC

In this case the use of "PC" can be seen as correct: If Microsoft succeeds to close the software part of PC's, why keep the hardware open so people can escape to Linux? Microsoft ARM based hardware is already closed.

No, he's specifically talking about Windows and Microsoft possibly forcing people to use the Windows store. It is not PC, it is Windows.

Also Microsoft does not own the hardware platform, which means they have no way of closing it down. They might try if they're ever desperate enough, but that'll fail miserably. Not that their current antics with W10 don't reek of desperation already.

In theory they don't, in practice they do dictate policy. You remember that whole UEFI thing back when windows 8 was released. Only because the EU intervened did Microsoft amend their required implementation guide to include a section about being able to disable the secure boot functionality on x86 systems.
Nothing would stop manufactures from adding this feature on their own, but many only do the base requirements and then add RGB leds in motherboard.

You can see this effect with the secure boot keys. How many do you think have the Red Hat boot key by default, and how many have the Microsoft boot key?

If they want to really break things they only need to require secure boot be enabled for the windows store to work, then rotate the windows secure boot key, one that they haven't used to sign the Linux binaries (Yes, Microsoft are signing Linux/Grub binaries so they work on our "open hardware") and remove the ability to use non store programs.

Hey, I love Linux as much as anyone, and would love to see Linux take over the home PC market.

But also, you gotta give Windows credit where it's due.

http://forwardthinking.pcmag.com/software/286148-the-rise-of-dos-how-microsoft-got-the-ibm-pc-os-contract.
http%3A%2F%2Fforwardthinking.pcmag.com%2Fsoftware%2F286148-the-rise-of-dos-how-microsoft-got-the-ibm-pc-os-contract
EDIT: Not my fault link is broken, proper URL encoding ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It would be too simplistic to really say something like MS's OS was the original OS for the IBM PC. Or that IBM PC's are the only type of PC hardware

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence_of_the_IBM_PC_on_the_personal_computer_market
etc.

But, having said that, MS DOS and IBM PC were far and away the biggest players during the seminal years of widespread adoption of PCs. So they earned their right to stick in the collective consciousness. Even though the concepts are ever in flux, people tend to stick with traditional meanings even if those terms become a little outdated.

I know we're a minority group and would like that to change to less of a minority group, but I also am advocating for us not to become one "of those types" of minorities. Extremely thin skinned about the least little perceived slight in casual words.


Last edited by Halifax on 27 Jul 2016 at 1:01 am UTC