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Quoting: tmtvlNvidia doesn't "just work", devs keep working around their terrible shoddiness because Nvidia users keep crying foul if stuff doesn't work properly for them.

Quoting: tmtvlNvidia users are like Apple fanboys who keep deluding themselves so as not to have to face the reality that they've got serious Stockholm Syndrome.

Do you think people will be convinced when addressed like this?


Last edited by Eike on 27 December 2017 at 3:38 pm UTC

Quoting: SinaCutieUp until a few months ago, I was 100% AMD. But I kept increasingly having problems AMD video cards in Linux, so I bought an NVIDIA card to try out... and so far, it works flawlessly. It makes me wonder why I stuck with AMD so long.

What was the last AMD card you used? I was Nvidia user for a long time, but got fed up with poor integration and need to use the blob, so I switched to Polaris a while ago (RX 480). It's been a breeze since.


Last edited by Shmerl on 27 December 2017 at 6:11 pm UTC

Quoting: tmtvlNvidia "just works" if you use an outdated Xorg, don't care about standard Linux APIs like GBM, and even if they decide to support standard APIs it's years after the Intel and AMD have started supporting those.

Nvidia doesn't "just work", devs keep working around their terrible shoddiness because Nvidia users keep crying foul if stuff doesn't work properly for them.

When something doesn't work properly on AMD it's AMD's fault, when something doesn't work properly on Nvidia it's the project's fault. Nvidia users are like Apple fanboys who keep deluding themselves so as not to have to face the reality that they've got serious Stockholm Syndrome.

I don't remember when was the last time nvidia drivers didnt support latest Xorg or Kernel, its been getting new drivers out for the newly released kernel for within 1 week and Xorg hasn't been a problem long long time.

Standard APIs or not, the end user doesn't care. If it doesn't work it doesn't work. I know all the "political" stuff behind all this. Nvidia sucks, yeah. Gsync? F this, their own standards F this... but it works. Until then i have no plan to switch to AMD if i have to fiddle with things. If i buy a 500€ hardware i want it to work and get the most performance out of it, not wait for driver improvements or apply loads of workarounds by searching forums and google.

Quoting: XpanderStandard APIs or not, the end user doesn't care. If it doesn't work it doesn't work. I know all the "political" stuff behind all this. Nvidia sucks, yeah. Gsync? F this, their own standards F this... but it works.

It doesn't, a least not at all seamlessly. Constant screen tearing (especially in Unity games), constant breaking of the system and need to reinstall the driver on each kernel or xorg update, no framebuffer support, Optimus horror story, opaque bug reporting process and etc. and etc. Wayland support? Forget it. If you really don't care about proper system integration, then Nvidia is OK. But I really appreciate how much better AMD works after switching to it. So talking about "just works" - AMD is way ahead, and that's to be expected, AMD are putting an effort into upstreaming their driver, while Nvidia don't care in the least.

And not really accidentally, all those benefits in AMD are from the fact that their drivers are open. My personal favorite feature though is GALLIUM_HUD.


Last edited by Shmerl on 27 December 2017 at 7:07 pm UTC

Quoting: ShmerlIt doesn't, a least not at all seamlessly. Constant screen tearing (especially in Unity games), constant breaking of the system and need to reinstall the driver on each kernel or xorg update, no framebuffer support, Optimus horror story, opaque bug reporting process and etc. and etc.

I surely must be doing something wrong that I haven't met any of this in many years...

Quoting: ShmerlIt doesn't, a least not at all seamlessly. Constant screen tearing (especially in Unity games), constant breaking of the system and need to reinstall the driver on each kernel or xorg update, no framebuffer support, Optimus horror story, opaque bug reporting process and etc. and etc. Wayland support? Forget it. If you really don't care about proper system integration, then Nvidia is OK. But I really appreciate how much better AMD works after switching to it. So talking about "just works" - AMD is way ahead, and that's to be expected, AMD are putting an effort into upstreaming their driver, while Nvidia don't care in the least.

And not really accidentally, all those benefits in AMD are from the fact that their drivers are open. My personal favorite feature though is GALLIUM_HUD.

Constant screen tearing? how about ForceCompositionPipline? or 4 years ago when that wasn't a thing there were compositors like compton that fixed it (though there was small perf cost)

Constant breaking of system? what? in 2007, yes. last 5 years, no
framebuffer support, yeah could be handy, but for a user who doesn't need to use TTYs, not a problem.
Optimus support? No idea about this one, who games on laptops anyway, i was talking about Desktop PC's
Wayland support? Wayland is still ways off, many games are not for wayland and perf is much worse with xwayland or whatever translation.

Now lets ask about AMD? Freesync? HDMI/DP audio? (ok those 2 are coming soonish, but what took so much time?) No Simple GUI to change your GPU settings, OC etc? have to use some third-party ones i guess? no OpenGL4.6 support? No Hardware encoder like nvenc. Or how about hard system lockups with RADV or some other scenarios?


Ok i stop arguing now. Do whatever you want. I will pick my next GPU from the side that delivers performance and feature-set with smallest amount of issues.

Quoting: EikeI surely must be doing something wrong that I haven't met any of this in many years...

Nvidia addresses some of those with a crawling pace. They supposedly fixed tearing by making a special double / triple buffering option, but it's off by default. They are working now on new API to propose for Wayland compositors (years late). If it will work out - great, but I don't expect it any time soon. They started supporting DRM/KMS kernel interfaces only recently, and even that isn't done properly yet (so PRIME kind of is there, but doesn't really work from what I've heard). And they never implemented framebuffer, so no idea how you could think it was fixed.

The bottom line - they are moving very slowly, simply because Linux integration was never a priority for them.


Last edited by Shmerl on 27 December 2017 at 7:45 pm UTC

Quoting: XpanderConstant breaking of system? what? in 2007, yes. last 5 years, no

I had it until I switched, so surely it was an issue even recently.

Quoting: XpanderWayland is still ways off

It was off for years, and now all DEs are finally ready to switch to it. Nvidia is nowhere ready.

Quoting: XpanderNow lets ask about AMD? Freesync? HDMI/DP audio? (ok those 2 are coming soonish, but what took so much time?) No Simple GUI to change your GPU settings, OC etc? have to use some third-party ones i guess?

AMD have their GUI, but they didn't open source it, so I've never used it. Not that I care much - I rarely tweak hardware parameters, defaults work OK. But I don't see why AMD can't open source that as well, once they completely replace their PRO with Mesa (they are gradually working on it, even adding compat profile to Mesa itself). I don't think it makes any sense for them to open it before, since they'll need to rework it.

Quoting: Xpanderno OpenGL4.6 support?

Mesa supports OpenGL 4.6 except for a couple of extensions needed for Vulkan / OpenGL interop, which are being worked on. Those aren't trivial, since they require reimplementing some parts like IR translation. But it's well on the way. And I don't think you'll notice that. Which application even relies on such interop at present?

See https://mesamatrix.net


Last edited by Shmerl on 27 December 2017 at 7:53 pm UTC

Quoting: XpanderI don't remember when was the last time nvidia drivers didnt support latest Xorg or Kernel, its been getting new drivers out for the newly released kernel for within 1 week and Xorg hasn't been a problem long long time.

[i]Standard APIs or not, the end user doesn't care.

If it doesn't work it doesn't work.[/i]

I know all the "political" stuff behind all this. Nvidia sucks, yeah. Gsync? F this, their own standards F this... but it works.

Until then i have no plan to switch to AMD if i have to fiddle with things.

If i buy a 500€ hardware i want it to work and get the most performance out of it, not wait for driver improvements or apply loads of workarounds by searching forums and google.

Nothing more to say in this phrase

Quoting: Xpander

Quoting: ShmerlIt doesn't, a least not at all seamlessly. Constant screen tearing (especially in Unity games), constant breaking of the system and need to reinstall the driver on each kernel or xorg update, no framebuffer support, Optimus horror story, opaque bug reporting process and etc. and etc. Wayland support? Forget it. If you really don't care about proper system integration, then Nvidia is OK. But I really appreciate how much better AMD works after switching to it. So talking about "just works" - AMD is way ahead, and that's to be expected, AMD are putting an effort into upstreaming their driver, while Nvidia don't care in the least.

And not really accidentally, all those benefits in AMD are from the fact that their drivers are open. My personal favorite feature though is GALLIUM_HUD.

Constant screen tearing? how about ForceCompositionPipline? or 4 years ago when that wasn't a thing there were compositors like compton that fixed it (though there was small perf cost)

Constant breaking of system? what? in 2007, yes. last 5 years, no
framebuffer support, yeah could be handy, but for a user who doesn't need to use TTYs, not a problem.
Optimus support? No idea about this one, who games on laptops anyway, i was talking about Desktop PC's
Wayland support? Wayland is still ways off, many games are not for wayland and perf is much worse with xwayland or whatever translation.

Now lets ask about AMD? Freesync? HDMI/DP audio? (ok those 2 are coming soonish, but what took so much time?) No Simple GUI to change your GPU settings, OC etc? have to use some third-party ones i guess? no OpenGL4.6 support? No Hardware encoder like nvenc.

Or how about hard system lockups with RADV or some other scenarios?

Ok i stop arguing now. Do whatever you want. I will pick my next GPU from the side that delivers performance and feature-set with smallest amount of issues.

Wayland dont care for now, as your said too most apps run over x and xwayland have many problems

Sadly amd market quote difficult change* because amd needs improve so much for offer same features than nvidia, as various cited by yourself: random lockups - freezing, driver GUI - lastest opengl support and many others

*In hardware side is worst scenary for amd because them lack of good performance / tdp gpu

^_^

Quoting: GuestI don't get lockups with mesa.

I'm waiting for this one to be fixed:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104193
https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43872

radeonsi now has a problem of hanging the whole system when some wrong stuff goes on with OpenGL. It's surely not the best experience, but I think they improved GPU reset with Vega.

The difference is, I don't mind participating in Mesa bug reporting, but with Nvidia it's completely opaque. I have no idea if anyone is working on that bug, or if they even care.

Quoting: GuestI have no application that uses GL4.6, let alone a game

Exactly my point. And as I said, Mesa already supports 4.6, except for 2 SPIR-V related extensions.


Last edited by Shmerl on 27 December 2017 at 9:36 pm UTC