Capcom shows off official video of Devil May Cry 5 on the Steam Deck

Quoting: elmapulwe complained a lot about not being 100% an native port

Most of the complaints I saw about the Witcher 2 port were because it was released before it was anywhere near ready. It was more or less broken in many ways and performed like crap. There was lots of talk about VP's wrapper tech being the reason, but you wouldn't have seen a fraction of the backlash if the release wasn't so badly botched. You see exactly the same kind of response when a bad or broken console port is released on Windows.

Personally I was fine with the port and enjoyed the game after they fixed the most glaring problems, quite a while after release. The tech doesn't really matter that much to me as long as the release is properly supported on Linux. Emphasis on "support". I still don't really buy games that don't officially support Linux.

Quoting: elmapulsorry if it sounds like conspiration theory, it is.

It definitely is a conspiracy theory with very little technical understanding to back it up.

Quoting: elmapuli always thought that free software was made by people for people, and companies had an symbiotic relationship with us.

Some companies understand the long-term benefits and work with Linux and the community, but most take what they can and give nothing or very little back. It's naïve to expect anything else, when most business decisions are made by people who have very little interest or expertise in the technology or anything beyond short term profit.

Quoting: elmapulits harder and harder to believe that narrative, mint broke compatibility with snapes claiming that they were an proprietary form of distribution or that canonical was the only repo or something, but then, why they support steam?

They didn't break anything. You can just install snapd and go nuts, but Mint decided that flatpak was the more universal solution and better for their users, and went with that as the default instead. I don't think any distribution officially supports both out of the box.

Quoting: elmapulwe may demonize an proprietary codecs because they arent open source or compatible with open source, they are evil , etc.
we may demonize drm and anti cheat.
we may demonize everything for the sake of freedom, but at the end of the day, what we end up with?

Lots of demons?

sorry for my last posts i was a bit... in a bad mood lets say.

Quoting: tuubiMost of the complaints I saw about the Witcher 2 port were because it was released before it was anywhere near ready

ok, fair enough, it was so long ago that i forgot what was the main issue, or never knew, the polemic surrounding Virtual programing was so big that the true problem was burried, at least in my "news feed".

Quoting: tuubiSome companies understand the long-term benefits and work with Linux and the community, but most take what they can and give nothing or very little back. It's naïve to expect anything else, when most business decisions are made by people who have very little interest or expertise in the technology or anything beyond short term profit.

so canonical fit in what definition? i think they shoot thenselves in the foot by trying to make their own display server, desktop enviroment etc all at the same time.
then snaps...

Quoting: tuubiThey didn't break anything. You can just install snapd and go nuts, but Mint decided that flatpak was the more universal solution and better for their users, and went with that as the default instead. I don't think any distribution officially supports both out of the box.

if all distributions pick and chose what universal packages they will support, then those packages arent universal at all, we solve nothing by add'ing then, that is the issue.

Quoting: tuubiLots of demons?

[redacted]

Quoting: tuubiIt definitely is a conspiracy theory with very little technical understanding to back it up.

Probably, but i still cant understand why the web has an great backward compatibility (for good or for bad, regardless of consequences) and we break things so often in linux.


it helps nothing that i tried to develop myself and canonical ditched the apis they were creating (it was PWA before PWA was a thing and with more integration, i can understand why they ditched it, but it still was frustrating.

honestly as both an end user and developer, things breaking on updates pissed me of a lot, it improved a lot since i stop using non LTS ( for years no one told me that i should stay on LTS) and started keeping note on the apps that i install to better troubleshoot any problem (eg: if i install A,B,C it cause problem but if i stop at B it dont)
i would quote a few times things broke but i cant remember now, brian lunduke would give better examples than i can (im awake since yesterday)

its just frustrating to think that, we had some native games in the past, that no longer works, and we have to install the windows version of then.
if we didnt had windows? we were screwed.

now... i didnt wanted to say "companies definitely did this on purpose" because i know it sounds ridiculous
but if there is an cost of keeping backward compatibility, and an economic incentive in breaking, what is the most logical thing to do?

let quote some examples....

openSSL was not secure, big companies sundely realized that one critical piece of their infra structure (and used by many smaller companies too) was not properly funded...
then an fork was created, because of course it was, why fund the original project if you can fund an fork of it instead?

PoP!OS is creating their own desktop enviroment, they said gnome developers code like monkey or something akin to that...
so, why not fund gnome foundation and ask then to hire better developers?
well, because they can just create their own solution instead, paying developers at cost of production instead of cost of production+profit for the managers, and if anyone use their solution, they might be the ones geting paid for customization/improvments instead of paying someone else.
sigh.
i think Pop is going to do the same mistakes that canonical did, meanwhile there are so many things they could make beyond an Desktop Enviroment...
if they want to be an distro for content creators, why not create something like substance painter before substance painter was a thing?


Last edited by elmapul on 27 November 2021 at 11:52 am UTC

Quoting: KohlyKohlFor native Linux to take off, the number of gamers on Linux needs to go up first.

Still waiting for the wave of EAC support to happen from devs like SCUM/DUST etc..

Quoting: elmapulsorry for my last posts i was a bit... in a bad mood lets say.

But you are polite. I can't respond to all because phone typing is slow, but if more in a bad mood were like you, it'd be great.

Quoting: MohandevirEdit2: Specialized? Please define... To me, it's still Arch Linux, with the same drivers and KDE desktop. Certainly it will have a minimal set of software pre-installed... I would have used the term "barebone". Which might be less scary for newcomers.



Looks like a standard KDE desktop to me...

Wait... Is that browser Google Chrome?!
EDIT: It looks like I can’t quote a picture...
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/11/capcom-shows-off-official-video-of-devil-may-cry-5-steam-deck/comment_id=214993


Last edited by mr-victory on 27 November 2021 at 4:02 pm UTC

Quoting: mr-victoryWait... Is that browser Google Chrome?!

Why is that surprising? It has officially supported Linux for more than a decade.

I wonder if Linux porting companies will rebrand their services as 'Extensive SteamDeck optimization' so it sounds less like supporting all those distros.

Quoting: elmapulProbably, but i still cant understand why the web has an great backward compatibility (for good or for bad, regardless of consequences) and we break things so often in linux.

On the other hand this is also the reasons why browsers are bloated messes with extremely hard to maintain code full of security problems.

That said I do agree with you and have argued for years that e.g library writers should take much more care about maintaining ABI and API stability, a new incompatible interface should only be introduced if it really really is necessary and when done it should also be added GLIBC style where keep the old functions in a versioned way so that you don't break ABI compatibility with old applications.

But the main answer is that software is still a young technology that is fast moving forward.

Quoting: elmapulit helps nothing that i tried to develop myself and canonical ditched the apis they were creating (it was PWA before PWA was a thing and with more integration, i can understand why they ditched it, but it still was frustrating.

honestly as both an end user and developer, things breaking on updates pissed me of a lot, it improved a lot since i stop using non LTS ( for years no one told me that i should stay on LTS) and started keeping note on the apps that i install to better troubleshoot any problem (eg: if i install A,B,C it cause problem but if i stop at B it dont)
i would quote a few times things broke but i cant remember now, brian lunduke would give better examples than i can (im awake since yesterday)

Being an insomniac I do feel your pain. Yes it's not easy to know unless some one informs you that the echo system is separated into stable LTS distros that maintain API/ABI and behaviour for 5-10 years and the unstable ones where things constantly change.

Quoting: elmapulits just frustrating to think that, we had some native games in the past, that no longer works, and we have to install the windows version of then.
if we didnt had windows? we were screwed.

Actually those old games should be fully possible to resurrect, the reason some of them don't work on a newer system is that things like SDL have changed too much but one can gather the old versions of all the dependencies for those old games and LD_PRELOAD them in or put it all into a container. There might be some exotic old libraries that straight out refuses to work on a new system but even then it's fully possible to fork them and massage them enough to work, requires that some one steps up to do the work, but it's doable.

Quoting: elmapulnow... i didnt wanted to say "companies definitely did this on purpose" because i know it sounds ridiculous
but if there is an cost of keeping backward compatibility, and an economic incentive in breaking, what is the most logical thing to do?

There is a huge cost in maintaining backwards compatibility indefinitely since you have to orphan every single library and application for that to work. Just upgrading to the newest versions of libs and apps when you are about to release a new version of your distro is basically free in that regard so the economic incentive is not in the breaking, but in the "less amount of work that you put on your own shoulders".

Quoting: elmapullet quote some examples....

openSSL was not secure, big companies sundely realized that one critical piece of their infra structure (and used by many smaller companies too) was not properly funded...
then an fork was created, because of course it was, why fund the original project if you can fund an fork of it instead?

The fork done by the FreeBSD team (libressl) was done because the FreeBSD devs wanted more control over such a central piece of software that had gotten stale. Due note that the funding that happened due to this went to OpenSSL and not to LibreSSL and while LibreSSL was the better library for a short while, the OpenSSL project got rejuvenated in the process and LibreSSL is now basically only used by FreeBSD and the distros and projects that went with LibreSSL are close to all back to using OpenSSL again.

Quoting: elmapulPoP!OS is creating their own desktop enviroment, they said gnome developers code like monkey or something akin to that...
so, why not fund gnome foundation and ask then to hire better developers?
well, because they can just create their own solution instead, paying developers at cost of production instead of cost of production+profit for the managers, and if anyone use their solution, they might be the ones geting paid for customization/improvments instead of paying someone else.
sigh.
i think Pop is going to do the same mistakes that canonical did, meanwhile there are so many things they could make beyond an Desktop Enviroment...
if they want to be an distro for content creators, why not create something like substance painter before substance painter was a thing?

There is of course no real problem with the code of Gnome and the talk about monkeys are just hyperbole from frustrated people. The main reason that Pop!_OS want's to create their own DE is both the "how hard can it be" fallacy that so many devs fall into until they realise that the answer almost always are "quite hard" and the fact that Pop wants to have more control over how the DE looks, operates and works. The clash between Gnome and Pop is that Gnome have refused to implement several changes that Pop have asked for, now I'm in no position to say if either side (or both) are in the right/wrong but since the clash is over the direction, no amount of funding from Pop to Gnome would change anything here so that is not an option (had Gnome been propietary and the money from Pop would have been good then funding as a form of bribery would perhaps work, bit it often doesn't in Open Source projects due to devs work on them for the love of the project and not as a means to get rich [often but not always of course]).

Quoting: mirvWhat I was more referring to was that the Deck won't replace anyone already using a laptop, or a desktop

Replace? No. Runnning alongside. Sure. Remember that the initial batch is for users who already have a valid Steam account, thus already have a gaming rig? 95% of the market is running Windows. Some of them might be tempted to use Linux (SteamOS) if the Steam Deck experience is great.

Quoting: mirv... but I don't see it driving GNU/Linux adoption...

Remember that there is already an uptick in Linux usage since Valve announced the Steam Deck? Look at the latest Steam hardware survey and the Steam Deck is not even released, yet.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 27 November 2021 at 11:58 pm UTC