NVIDIA takes on AMD FSR with their new open source Image Scaling

Good news for cryptocurrency miners if they want to play games with their RTX :whistle:

69 fps. Nice.

I'm going to be that old man here and say it. They chose one of the most permissible open source licences they could. Not much of a statement in my eyes or at least not the one many will think it is.

I've heard that Intels DLSS competetor will be open sourced and will work on AMD and Nvidia GPUs (with a lower perf boost). Can anyone confirm this? If that were true it would be the go to solution if it doesn't suck ofc...

Quoting: erik-reiderI've heard that Intels DLSS competetor will be open sourced and will work on AMD and Nvidia GPUs (with a lower perf boost). Can anyone confirm this? If that were true it would be the go to solution if it doesn't suck ofc...

Yes, that is correct.

Wait, for that comparison image, are Nvidia saying that a lower resolution image upscaled with DLSS gives a better resulting 4k quality than a native 4k render?

But IIUC it still has to be implemented by the game developers, in which case it has a limited use in comparison with FSR.

Couldn't they (Intel, AMD & Nvidia... Khronos? Valve?) figure it out together, for once, and come up with one open source standard?

What's nice with AMD FSR it's that it can be used on any game, with Proton. Maybe Intel's and Nvidia's solutions will be integrated to Proton in futur releases, adding lines of code to Proton, on the way, but why 3 standards for the same feature? It'a all open source, why not collaborate? Political considerations?

Probably too idealistic from my part... Sorry, my outsider rant.

Last edited by Mohandevir on 16 Nov 2021 at 4:21 pm UTC

Quoting: AnanaceWait, for that comparison image, are Nvidia saying that a lower resolution image upscaled with DLSS gives a better resulting 4k quality than a native 4k render?

That's what they've said before, and what people have found. [For example.](https://www.hardwaretimes.com/control-gets-nvidia-dlss-2-0-offers-better-visual-quality-than-native/)

So to understand this better, Nvidia's new upscaling works on AMD too?

Last edited by Shmerl on 16 Nov 2021 at 4:39 pm UTC

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: MohandevirCouldn't they (Intel, AMD & Nvidia) figure it out together, for once, and come up with one open source standard?

What's nice with AMD FSR it's that it can be used on any game, with Proton. Maybe Intel's and Nvidia's solutions will be integrated to Proton in futur releases, adding lines of code to Proton, on the way, but why 3 standards for the same feature? It'a all open source, why not collaborate? Political considerations?

Probably too idealistic from my part... Sorry, my outsider rant.

That's because NVIDIA is hostile to open source. Their closed source software is how they keep a grip on several markets. They only released this because FSR was gaining developer mindshare. They only open source stuff when the alternative is their competition eating up their lunch.

Intel still hasn't gotten their discrete GPUs to the same point as AMD and NVIDIA but they do contribute to the open source stack on other areas.

I think AMD should continue this strategy of offering 95%-100% of what Nvidia offers but open sourced to force their hand.

The FSR maintainers should have a look at DLSS (Nvidia Image Scaling... Oups!) and see what can be integrated that will boost FSR performances... Isn't it open source, afterall?

Last edited by Mohandevir on 17 Nov 2021 at 4:55 pm UTC

Quoting: GuestTheir closed source software is how they keep a grip on several markets. They only released this because FSR was gaining developer mindshare. They only open source stuff when the alternative is their competition eating up their lunch.

The right thing for the wrong reason, I still see this as a win for users

Now I hope Khronos to take the best parts of each technology and make a true cross-platform standard.

Quoting: MohandevirCouldn't they (Intel, AMD & Nvidia... Khronos? Valve?) figure it out together, for once, and come up with one open source standard?

No.

So, Nvidia's generous answer to AMD FSR is to needlessly fragment the image scaling technology landscape? Good job, I guess? Hopefully someone picks this code apart and brings FSR on par with it, I don't have high hopes for Nvidia to keep up maintenance on this.

Last edited by Samsai on 16 Nov 2021 at 7:12 pm UTC

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: MohandevirCouldn't they (Intel, AMD & Nvidia... Khronos? Valve?) figure it out together, for once, and come up with one open source standard?

No.

That's what we call a succinct answer. :grin:

or you know you could of just supported the existing tech thereby making something that is universal for all gamers to use no matter the platform just a thought

Perfect! Ideal for to extend the useful life of older cards, because buying a new one is impossible..

When this feature will be available on Linux???

Quoting: GuestFrom what I read from a guy looking into integrating this into retroarch like FSR apparently this code drop is less portable and more constricted that what FSR does. It assumes you are using dx shaders and working with dx11, something AMD's solution does not.

In other words, it's half assed and not even good.

Are AMD at least using Vulkan for FSR?

Quoting: MohandevirThe FSR maintainers should have a look at DLSS and see what can be integrated that will boost FSR performances... Isn't it open source, afterall?

This is not possible for two reasons:

- The DLSS SDK is proprietary. In fact, [even Quake 2 RTX (maintained by NVIDIA) doesn't include DLSS support](https://github.com/NVIDIA/Q2RTX/issues/68) because integrating the DLSS SDK would violate the GPL.
- DLSS requires motion vectors, which makes it much more difficult to integrate in an existing engine. In contrast, FSR is a post-processing shader that can even be injected into applications that weren't designed for it (at the cost of UI elements looking worse than with a "proper" implementation).

Last edited by Calinou on 17 Nov 2021 at 12:38 am UTC

Yeah they way I read this is:
Thanks to AMD once again for forcing Nvidia to do something that they said wasn't possible that they could've done at any time but chose not to. I know that's blunt, but this really highlights how important competition is. Nvidia could've done this at any time, but just chose not to, and thanks to the AMD FSR it has really forced their hand (this goes with other stuff too, such as FreeSync, high core-count CPUs, etc).

Edit: Looking at those images provided, the text looks better on the new Nvidia tech, but the wall textures appear to be "softer" and less detailed. Either way, its nice to have competition, and it looks like this will be really nice in some cases (being able to choose from either method is going to be awesome).

Last edited by holisticboy on 17 Nov 2021 at 1:24 am UTC