Immersion Corporation have a history of taking on companies and winning, with Valve being the latest in the firing line over Immersion's patents. The patents involved are 7,336,260, 8,749,507, 9,430,042, 9,116,546, 10,627,907, 10,665,067, and 11,175,738.
They're pretty notorious for this going after Xiaomi, Meta (Facebook), Sony, Microsoft and more in the past. Most companies just seem to partner up with them now and license their stuff.
From the press release:
“Immersion and its employees have worked diligently for almost 30 years to invent innovative haptic technologies that allow people to use their sense of touch to engage with products and experience the digital world around them. Our intellectual property is relevant to many of the most important and cutting-edge ways in which haptic technology is and can be deployed, and, in the case of AR/VR experiences, haptics is crucial to an immersive user experience,” said Eric Singer, Chairman and CEO.
“While we are pleased to see that Valve recognizes the value of haptics and has adopted our haptic technology in its handheld video game and AR/VR systems as part of its effort to generate revenue streams through the sales of hardware, games and other virtual assets, and advertisements, it is important for us to protect our business against infringement of our intellectual property to preserve the investments that we have made in our technology,” added Mr. Singer. “We must ensure that our intellectual property is recognized as a necessary feature in the handheld video game and emerging AR/VR markets, even when litigation becomes necessary.”
I have reached out to Valve Press, to see if they have any statement to share on this.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Quoting: FurysparkRegardless of what this may or may not entail, there is nothing you can do or say to me that makes me believe patents and copyright aren't the love children of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Zedong.
IDK. Copyright ils definitely way too long, and it's absurd that it outlasts patents.
Patents on the other hand, are quite interesting, though they have been subverted with time (as with anything when lawyers get involved). They offer companies to publish their trade secrets against time-limited exclusivity. Sounds like a good deal, as it avoids "well, that is something only company X knew how to do, but they went belly up 50 years ago" situations. Also, you need to pay (more and more with time) to extend them, up to 20 years.
I'm looking into patenting an electronics circuit myself (PhD results), which is quite innovative. If the patent sale or licensing could give me a few funds to pursue more research, I'd be happy with that. In this situation, I see the patent system as "outsourcing R&D".
I'm a bit sad that you need a lawyer to draft them up though, that makes patents expensive to do for individuals like me (yeah, patenting through my lab is... complicated, and I'm not employed anymore anyway).
Also, most companies take the approach of "describing as little as you can", which is against the spirit.
And then there's patent trolls and patents of little substance. You're not supposed to be able to patent an idea, and I believe patents to last way too long for software, where time-to-market is much, much shorter than, say, the 5-10 years it generally takes in electronics or other industrial domains (not even counting the time to obtain funding if you are starting a product from scratch as a startup).
I can't really judge for this situation, maybe their claims are legitimate? I'd have to read the patents :|
Last edited by MayeulC on 17 May 2023 at 2:22 pm UTC
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Quoting: MayeulCI believe patents to last way too long for softwarePatents on software are prohibited, although that hasn't stopped patent filers and the CAFC from trying to slip them through anyway - generally with the figleaf that a machine that's running software is an entirely different machine to one that's running different software.
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slaapliedje May 17, 2023
Quoting: elmapuli know that will sound like conspiration theory, but.. who else thinks microsoft is behind this?Ah, the trial where the Amiga was given kudos for having virtual workspaces before Unix.
that seems like an familiar situation, microsoft funding someone else to sue...
https://youtu.be/u4kMUk7sCUs?t=709
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slaapliedje May 17, 2023
Quoting: FurysparkRegardless of what this may or may not entail, there is nothing you can do or say to me that makes me believe patents and copyright aren't the love children of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Zedong.Copyright has been extended many times by the likes of Disney. Not quite as murderous as those three, but they definitely are greedy bastards.
Patents are well intended to make it so an inventor can get some money to pay for the invention, but the patent system is heavily abused these days for ridiculous things, and really only given to people who have the money already.
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Quoting: krstNow with this lawsuit now - I don't see any connection. MS again releases games on Steam, MS does not have any Deck competitor, nor mobile gaming device. It is in the interest in MS that the Deck is a success as it means MS can sell more games to potential customers.
I think the time is over to think of MS as the pure evil in a company form.
then i think you should watch the rog ally presentation.
not only they have an device to compete with the deck (an partnership with the vendors of one) but they spread FUD and miss information there.
i mean, they implied you cant do your homework on steamOS... (they said you can do it on the ally because its running windows)
implied you cant use xcloud (despite the fact that they thenselves officially support it)
implied you cant use netflix.
implied that windows is more compatible (when we know its the opposite, games that are compatible with it not the other way arround)
not to mention: MS interest is keeping their OS monopoly as well as sell stuff in their own store, having to support linux on their store, and support games purchased there runing on linux is out of their plans.
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Quoting: MayeulCIDK. Copyright ils definitely way too long, and it's absurd that it outlasts patents.
Patents on the other hand, are quite interesting, though they have been subverted with time (as with anything when lawyers get involved). They offer companies to publish their trade secrets against time-limited exclusivity. Sounds like a good deal, as it avoids "well, that is something only company X knew how to do, but they went belly up 50 years ago" situations. Also, you need to pay (more and more with time) to extend them, up to 20 years.
I'm looking into patenting an electronics circuit myself (PhD results), which is quite innovative. If the patent sale or licensing could give me a few funds to pursue more research, I'd be happy with that. In this situation, I see the patent system as "outsourcing R&D".
I'm a bit sad that you need a lawyer to draft them up though, that makes patents expensive to do for individuals like me (yeah, patenting through my lab is... complicated, and I'm not employed anymore anyway).
Also, most companies take the approach of "describing as little as you can", which is against the spirit.
And then there's patent trolls and patents of little substance. You're not supposed to be able to patent an idea, and I believe patents to last way too long for software, where time-to-market is much, much shorter than, say, the 5-10 years it generally takes in electronics or other industrial domains (not even counting the time to obtain funding if you are starting a product from scratch as a startup).
I can't really judge for this situation, maybe their claims are legitimate? I'd have to read the
Judging from their Wikipedia page I'd wager they're patent trolls. They have tens of millions in revenue while having only 26 people employed and owning tens of thousands of patents by buying up companies, particularly in the medical field. They actually worked with Microsoft in the late 90s but the sued them in 2002... Here's the kicker. They sued based on a patent they acquired from another company in 98.
This is 100% a patent trolling company.
Last edited by LacSlyer on 17 May 2023 at 3:28 pm UTC
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Quoting: LacSlyerThis is 100% a patent trolling company.Of course it is. But that's a not-yet-illegal-in-the-US and very lucrative line of business to be in. Although I believe they prefer the term "Non Practising Entity."
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Quoting: CatKillerQuoting: LacSlyerThis is 100% a patent trolling company.Of course it is. But that's a not-yet-illegal-in-the-US and very lucrative line of business to be in. Although I believe they prefer the term "Non Practising Entity."
Apologies I quoted the wrong post in my original.
Last edited by LacSlyer on 17 May 2023 at 3:27 pm UTC
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Quoting: MayeulCPatents (in software) takes away the right of others to do R&D and develop new software and cash in on that R&D. Copyright allows you to protect your design.Quoting: FurysparkRegardless of what this may or may not entail, there is nothing you can do or say to me that makes me believe patents and copyright aren't the love children of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Zedong.IDK. Copyright ils definitely way too long, and it's absurd that it outlasts patents.
This is especially true in software.
A lot of patents in the USA are laughable and have prior art. For instance the patents that NVidia used to destroy 3DFX were things I learned on school, so that's about 15 years prior.
People supporting patents are usually people that are not smart enough to do smart things, or don't want innovation but full control and lots of money for little innovation.
The most important thing is the TRIPS agreement which states that patents should only be used in a market if it would help innovation in that market.
The USA is the biggest offender of the TRIPS agreement and wants the rest of the world to suffer the same faith.
So why does the USA do that? Well, the USA is a land of opportunities if you have a lot of money: you can lobby that your TRIPS violations are tolerated, and you can lobby the government that other countries should follow that.
Oh boy... I am back at my 2003 ranting about the attempts from big money to get frivolous patents in the EU.
And yes, we assume that Bill Gates was a supporter for that.
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The patent system is completely broken. FUBAR.
This is an NPE (Non-Practising Entity) in patent-system slang, meaning they don't produce anything, they were just able to secure a patent for some reason, that's suing a company that produces something. It's called extortion everywhere else.
And while the patent system might have been put up with good intentions, it only ever works for chemicals as intended (because CHOOH2 is an entirely different chemical than CHOOOH2, and not a derivative, and this is well understood); everywhere else it serves as an intertwined mess of a hedge that prohibits newcomers to enter a market, or as weapon of corporate warfare for incumbents to kill startups.
This is a relatively recent paper on this:
https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/jep.27.1.3
And here is a rant from 1851(!) in "The Economist"(!) that already understood why a patent system is total dreck:
https://seegras.discordia.ch/Blog/voices-against-the-patent-system-the-economist-1851/
This is an NPE (Non-Practising Entity) in patent-system slang, meaning they don't produce anything, they were just able to secure a patent for some reason, that's suing a company that produces something. It's called extortion everywhere else.
And while the patent system might have been put up with good intentions, it only ever works for chemicals as intended (because CHOOH2 is an entirely different chemical than CHOOOH2, and not a derivative, and this is well understood); everywhere else it serves as an intertwined mess of a hedge that prohibits newcomers to enter a market, or as weapon of corporate warfare for incumbents to kill startups.
This is a relatively recent paper on this:
https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/jep.27.1.3
And here is a rant from 1851(!) in "The Economist"(!) that already understood why a patent system is total dreck:
https://seegras.discordia.ch/Blog/voices-against-the-patent-system-the-economist-1851/
7 Likes, Who?
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