EU court upholds fine against Valve for geo-blocking

Quoting: ShabbyX> pay the full €1.6m fine

Peanuts for Valve I'm sure. I wonder if the cost of lawyers trying to fight it was even worth it, lol

Most likely is that they want to fight this so that they can enable it again, not to avoid the €1.6M fine.

Quoting: MalOk. But if it's illegal for Valve why is it legal for Netflix, Disney and all the other national media in Europe?

Netflix doesn't do what Valve was accused of doing, if you buy Netflix in Croatia you can still logon in Norway with the same account, that is why VPN services works for Netflix to get access to different catalogues of media.

Quoting: pleasereadthemanualNow, if only governments would outlaw region locking with DVDs and Blu-Rays. Region-locking shows on streaming services is bad enough, but region locking physical media is incredibly greedy. Or how about creating firmware for DVD players that will refuse to play discs not authorized to play in this region? How was anti-consumer behavior like this ever allowed? Was anyone allowed to publish a hardcover book which would combust if a customer attempted to open it in Australia?

Fuck region locks. For any reason.

Now you probably talked in more general terms, but just for people who don't know both DVD:s and BR:s are a single region inside the EU so they are both already not region locked as per EU regulation.


Last edited by F.Ultra on 28 September 2023 at 8:14 pm UTC

Quoting: KoopacabrasEveryone here talking about region locks being evil, but no one addressing the elephant in the ROOM of Region locks... in some countries... we cannot buy a Steam deck we'd had to pay double or triple price to scalpers.

That’s an entirely different issue and nothing to do with region locks. Physical distribution comes with a great many hurdles. I do wish Valve would expand it but they will have their reasons why they haven’t.

Quoting: CatKiller

QuoteTo sum up Valve tried blocking people buying games in different EU regions to get them cheaper, which is a breach of EU rules.

To be clear, it wasn't an action by Valve as such, and it wasn't sales on Steam. The publishers had their region restrictions on sales (which aren't allowed within the EU) and gave out Steam keys (for which Valve didn't get money); the publishers used Steam's region locks to prevent activation of those EU keys elsewhere within the EU, and Valve let them. That's why Valve got fined, but that's also why the fine is quite small. Valve subsequently fixed their tools so that publishers can't prevent activation within the EU of something sold within the EU, so it's just that historical breach.

That's why you're one of my favorite human on earth ;)

Quoting: poiuz

Quoting: omer666Good job fining Valve for region-locking, while Germany continues censoring games and Microsoft buying Activision is tolerated.

Only one of the three broke the law.

Germany does not censor games. Certain presentations are banned but that rarely happens (only 40 games - if the list is complete - were ever banned, 11 bans rescinded). Many games (but even that now rarely happens) were indexed which imposes major restrictions but technically it was still possible to buy the games. Publishers then censored games to allow a mainstream release. This happens in the US, too: e.g. movies are censored in production for an R rating & avoid NC-17. But unlike German releases this usually affects all releases.

You can't buy Postal Redux in Germany at all for example, even if you buy a legit key and try to activate it on Steam. But your statement is right: it doesn't break the law because it is precisely the law in Germany.
As to whether Microsoft is breaking the law or not, as far as we're dealing with antitrust laws or European competition law, that's quite debatable if you ask me. To see that it was problematic up until they got away with an agreement on game streaming is a bit confusing to say the least.
I am also not trying to compare the EU to the US, as the later is not a model to me either. I am french and I see EU doing stupid things sometimes, but they also do get many things right. That today's news got me thinking of these is not that far fetched, is it?

What is wrong with setting a price at a level that is affordable to people in a lower economic block / region.

Something that is available to everyone in the UK or France and Germany is only available to the wealthy in the Baltic states?

I thought the EU was a democracy?

Or am I reading this wrong..

Yep, think I read it wrong. :)


Last edited by Craggles086 on 29 September 2023 at 1:02 am UTC

I think this article and the comments mixes up two concepts (not Liam's fault because the press release isnt very clear as well)... one is "geo blocking" prices or regional pricing, other is regional blocking (place where the key could be activated).
Correct me if I am wrong, but EU comission ruling is against regional pricing, not against regional blocking. Maybe on this case, on the time frame were this happened people could buy keys from third party sites from other cheaper EU regions, and activating them in their own region was legal an ToS complaint?
For example, some time ago steam allowed to buy "gift keys", in latam, from regions that were cheaper, and it allowed to activate in other region. For example, I could buy a key from argentina and activate in Brasil, Ecuador, Chile, etc. See what I mean? The regional pricing locks and regional blocking were different, the place where the key could be activated was a different greater region.

(On a different note, its funny how companies like to put together "latam" as an economic region, when as such it doesnt actually exist, maybe the Mercosur is the same economic region, but afaik there is no Latam economic block)


Last edited by Koopacabras on 29 September 2023 at 12:22 am UTC

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: MalOk. But if it's illegal for Valve why is it legal for Netflix, Disney and all the other national media in Europe?

Netflix doesn't do what Valve was accused of doing, if you buy Netflix in Croatia you can still logon in Norway with the same account, that is why VPN services works for Netflix to get access to different catalogues of media.

It's not a matter of correctness of regulation. Ofc EU Regulation allow it to Netflix. But that because EU Regulation is hypocritical.

There is stuff you can watch in Norway and not in Croatia and viceversa. That is geo-locking, they offer different content in different regions, that you can only consume in those regions. Not to mention that prices are also different. EU can call it whatever they want but it's geo-locking. People in the single market pay differently and obtain different services depending where they live.

Then yes with VPN you can also login in UK and play steam eastern version of the game. The only difference here is that Valve is generally smarter because they serve a smarter audience and it makes it more difficult since you also need other credentials like a valid cc card where Netflix is dumber.

Or are we saying that the whole point in EU is that geo locking is fine only as long as you can easily circumvent it with a plain nord vpn for few bucks at months?

Quoting: KoopacabrasCorrect me if I am wrong, but EU comission ruling is against regional pricing, not against regional blocking.

No, it's about the blocking. An EU citizen getting lower prices buying elsewhere in the EU is Working As Intended as far as they're concerned. What they really don't want are barriers to goods and services. Like these. Or, as they put it, "today's sanctions against the "geo-blocking" practices of Valve and five PC video game publishers serve as a reminder that under EU competition law, companies are prohibited from contractually restricting cross-border sales. Such practices deprive European consumers of the benefits of the EU Digital Single Market and of the opportunity to shop around for the most suitable offer in the EU."

The EU Commission made a handy picture previously



that Liam included in his earlier coverage.

Quoting: Mal

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: MalOk. But if it's illegal for Valve why is it legal for Netflix, Disney and all the other national media in Europe?

Netflix doesn't do what Valve was accused of doing, if you buy Netflix in Croatia you can still logon in Norway with the same account, that is why VPN services works for Netflix to get access to different catalogues of media.

It's not a matter of correctness of regulation. Ofc EU Regulation allow it to Netflix. But that because EU Regulation is hypocritical.

There is stuff you can watch in Norway and not in Croatia and viceversa. That is geo-locking, they offer different content in different regions, that you can only consume in those regions. Not to mention that prices are also different. EU can call it whatever they want but it's geo-locking. People in the single market pay differently and obtain different services depending where they live.

Then yes with VPN you can also login in UK and play steam eastern version of the game. The only difference here is that Valve is generally smarter because they serve a smarter audience and it makes it more difficult since you also need other credentials like a valid cc card where Netflix is dumber.

Or are we saying that the whole point in EU is that geo locking is fine only as long as you can easily circumvent it with a plain nord vpn for few bucks at months?

No it is not hypocritical, it is two completely different things. Valve and the listed publishing houses had different prices for the same product inside the EU single market with a geo-lock that meant that it hindered the free movement of services and goods that exists inside the EU single market.

Netflix does no such thing, if you bought your account in Norway you can still access the service in Croatia, or Austria. There is no geo-lock on your account. Yes there is differences in available media depending on where you login to Netflix but that is not Netflix being asshats, that is different IP holders having different rights to media and thus different agreements with Netflix. Aka distribution company X might have the rights to show Y in Norway while company Z have those rights in Croatia and if only one of them have decided to make an agreement with Netflix then ofc Netflix is forbidden from showing that content in one of those areas or Netflix would be found guilty of copyright infringement. And there is draconian law allowing EU to force a single company to have the rights to the entirety of the EU, such things are handled by each local country.

Had Ubisoft had the rights to Mass Effect in Germany and Warner the rights to it in Austria then both could have sold the same game in Steam with different prices and with geo-locking and it would have been legal, but that is not what happened.

Quoting: Craggles086What is wrong with setting a price at a level that is affordable to people in a lower economic block / region.

Something that is available to everyone in the UK or France and Germany is only available to the wealthy in the Baltic states?

I thought the EU was a democracy?

Or am I reading this wrong..

Yep, think I read it wrong. :)

No your thinking is wrong here, not your reading. There exists zero laws in EU against you having different prices in different regions of the EU. If you live here you already know that since there is no EU mandated price for tomatoes across every single member state and every single store. Valve and the game publishers are completely free to sell games cheaper in say the Baltics, what they are not allowed to do is block a person from Germany that bought the game in the Baltics to install his game in Germany.


Last edited by F.Ultra on 29 September 2023 at 2:51 am UTC

Quoting: KoopacabrasEveryone here talking about region locks being evil, but no one addressing the elephant in the ROOM of Region locks... in some countries... we cannot buy a Steam deck we'd had to pay double or triple price to scalpers.

If we had Steam Decks here in Australia..... It would only make the Spiders and Snakes even more dangerous..........