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Some interesting Linux industry news for you here, as the long road towards Wayland by default everywhere is taking another big step with Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) removing the Xorg server and other X servers (except Xwayland) from RHEL 10 and the following releases.

From their announcement by developer Carlos Soriano Sanchez posted November 27th:

We want to recognize the significant effort all these organizations and individuals have made, especially the rest of the upstream community, without whom this project would never be so mature. This effort gave us the confidence to first make Wayland default for most use cases in RHEL 8, followed up with the deprecating of Xorg server in RHEL 9, with the intention of its removal in a future release. Earlier this year (2023), as part of our RHEL 10 planning, we made a study to understand Wayland’s status, not only from an infrastructure perspective, but also from an ecosystem perspective. The result of this evaluation is that, while there are still some gaps and applications that need some level of adaptation, we believe the Wayland infrastructure and ecosystem are in good shape, and that we’re on a good path for the identified blockers to be resolved by the time RHEL 10 is out, planned to be released on the first half of 2025.

With this, we’ve decided to remove Xorg server and other X servers (except Xwayland) from RHEL 10 and the following releases. Xwayland should be able to handle most X11 clients that won’t immediately be ported to Wayland, and if needed, our customers will be able to stay on RHEL 9 for its full life cycle while resolving the specifics needed for transitioning to a Wayland ecosystem. It’s important to note that “Xorg Server” and “X11” are not synonymous, X11 is a protocol that will continue to be supported through Xwayland, while the Xorg Server is one of the implementations of the X11 protocol.

Red Hat and their engineers have their fingers in many pies across the Linux space, so this is a pretty big move, and one they say will enable them to "tackle problems such as HDR, increased security, setups with mixed low and high density displays or very high density displays, better GPU/Display hot-plugging, better gestures and scrolling, and so on" — which of course will end up benefiting everyone because that's how open source works.

Have you fully switched over to Wayland yet?

Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Tags: Distro News, Misc
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133 comments
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slaapliedje Nov 29, 2023
Ha, they can try and push this because there isn't a whole lot of people using RHEL with a GUI... and after their boneheaded treatment of CentOS... who is not making a shift from RHEL/CentOS?
SentakuHM Nov 29, 2023
fully switched to wayland/hyprland/kde about a year ago waiting for kde plasma 6.
Lofty Nov 29, 2023
Quoting: neolith
Quoting: CatKillerOLEDs would benefit from screensavers for the same reasons as CRTs did.
I was about to post exactly that. I've seen flatscreens with horrible burn in. Also, CRTs still exist and are still being used. Sure, it's a niche – but if I'd go through the trouble and the costs of using one, I am pretty sure I wouldn't want to ruin it.
Quoting: CatKiller
Quoting: Nezchan
Quoting: whizse
Quoting: NezchanSeems like the creator of Xscreensaver is rather upset about this development, given Wayland has no way to implement screen savers at all.
Another win for Wayland?

In its way. Since the passing of CRT monitors there hasn't been that much point having screensavers at all, so it's just a niche enthusiast thing now.

OLEDs would benefit from screensavers for the same reasons as CRTs did.

I was under the impression that you can save some energy on displays by having a blank screen or a dark screen with only some parts illuminated especially on OLED, where you also want to limit potential burn in. In fact, i can confirm that even on my typical LCD edge lit monitor changing the wallpaper can save upto 1.5 watts. Now multiply this by a factor of thousands of users. Not only that but presumably the new miniLED monitors can dynamically dim or switch off sectors of the screen completely and reduce power based on a darkened image with lets say a floating text.

Are we just giving up on linux in the workplace where companies / organizations like to run screen savers to protect from peeping eyes ( such as nurses stations in hospitals). A screen saver can be used to push information such as keeping your hands clean etc.. or just plain old company branding. Basically they still have their uses for some people.

Is modern Linux becoming monolithic in it's decision making ? it's easy to say no, until the change is made and you can no longer realistically not use the 'current thing'. Im sure eventually something might be able to be worked out, it is software after all. I can't imagine a 'brand new' state of the art Linux display protocol can't handle a simple screen saver...

right ...


Last edited by Lofty on 29 November 2023 at 4:57 pm UTC
Soulprayer Nov 29, 2023
I was already unhappy that EndeavourOS is dropping XFCE support.
But i will always love XFCE as my favorite desktop.

according to PCSX2 developers, Wayland is "super broken/buggy in basically every scenario. KDE isn't too buggy, GNOME is a complete disaster" and have disabled it in their distributions.
But:
QuotePCSX2 still supports Wayland. It just prefers the XCB/XWayland platform by default. You can set the I_WANT_A_BROKEN_WAYLAND_UI environment variable and experience the brokenness for yourself on the AppImage builds, or add the wayland socket to the flatpak.


Last edited by Soulprayer on 29 November 2023 at 4:07 pm UTC
slaapliedje Nov 29, 2023
Quoting: SoulprayerI was already unhappy that EndeavourOS is dropping XFCE support.
But i will always love XFCE as my favorite desktop.

according to PCSX2 developers, Wayland is "super broken/buggy in basically every scenario. KDE isn't too buggy, GNOME is a complete disaster" and have disabled it in their distributions.
But:
QuotePCSX2 still supports Wayland. It just prefers the XCB/XWayland platform by default. You can set the I_WANT_A_BROKEN_WAYLAND_UI environment variable and experience the brokenness for yourself on the AppImage builds, or add the wayland socket to the flatpak.
One of the 'fun' little breakages I've found... I use a Nitrokey. Copy/Paste in it is broken under Wayland. The way it works under Xorg, I can right click on the tray icon, select password slot label, and the password is copied into the clipboard...

Under Wayland, this doesn't work at all, and the only way I can get it to work is to open the full UI, go to the slot where it's saved, click show password, then copy and paste it that way. That goes from 1 click to like 8... all because Wayland hasn't implemented all of the Xorg clipboard tricks.
BlackBloodRum Nov 29, 2023
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Quoting: slaapliedje
Quoting: SoulprayerI was already unhappy that EndeavourOS is dropping XFCE support.
But i will always love XFCE as my favorite desktop.

according to PCSX2 developers, Wayland is "super broken/buggy in basically every scenario. KDE isn't too buggy, GNOME is a complete disaster" and have disabled it in their distributions.
But:
QuotePCSX2 still supports Wayland. It just prefers the XCB/XWayland platform by default. You can set the I_WANT_A_BROKEN_WAYLAND_UI environment variable and experience the brokenness for yourself on the AppImage builds, or add the wayland socket to the flatpak.
One of the 'fun' little breakages I've found... I use a Nitrokey. Copy/Paste in it is broken under Wayland. The way it works under Xorg, I can right click on the tray icon, select password slot label, and the password is copied into the clipboard...

Under Wayland, this doesn't work at all, and the only way I can get it to work is to open the full UI, go to the slot where it's saved, click show password, then copy and paste it that way. That goes from 1 click to like 8... all because Wayland hasn't implemented all of the Xorg clipboard tricks.
Wayland may not be entirely to blame here.

KeePassXC has similar functionality, where you can select an entry, click copy and then paste it elsewhere. It also prevents it being added to clipboard history, and clears it out of your clipboard after a set time.

It does all this on Wayland just fine. So, perhaps Nitrokey could follow a similar method?
Soulprayer Nov 29, 2023
Quoting: slaapliedjeI use a Nitrokey. Copy/Paste in it is broken under Wayland.
I wonder if Redhat has Nitrokey-Users
whizse Nov 29, 2023
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X11 was of course in contrast to Wayland loved by all and never faced any criticism.

QuoteIf the designers of X-Windows built cars, there would be no fewer than five steering wheels hidden about the cockpit, none of which followed the same principles -- but you'd be able to shift gears with your car stereo. Useful feature, that.

QuoteThis is what happens when software with good intentions goes bad. It victimizes innocent users by distorting their perception of what is and what is not good software. This malignant window system must be destroyed.
Oh, wait, maybe not.
B-wize Nov 29, 2023
Quoting: RenardDesMersI was shopping for a new monitor for black Friday and was debating with myself about how useful would HDR and Freesync features be since Wayland can't support those yet and I don't really know when they'll get decent support.
Hopefully the wayland folks remember about the gamers when prioritizing the missing features.

I initially had the same thoughts when monitor shopping. I ended up reframing my thought a little by just looking for a monitor with the most future proof features. For me, it turned out to be high refresh rate, great contrast, and excellent response time (wound up being an OLED monitor), and the HDR is just a bit of a bonus. If/when it arrives, you'll be ready if you take that approach.
Calinou Nov 29, 2023
Quoting: CatKillerOLEDs would benefit from screensavers for the same reasons as CRTs did.

A black screen works very well for that, since it also provides the lowest possible power consumption while still providing instant resume times (if the display isn't actually put in suspend mode).
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