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Quoting: cybolicTo make myself perfectly clear, I very much welcome discussion of the content of the game and its ban, and of course think you a free to interpret the original scene in any way you wish, but I cannot stand misinformation.

That's probably not going to be possible, because as I said, the FAQ was ret-conned somewhat. I believe the devs are "doing a Wolfire" and blaming Valve, perhaps not unreasonably, for their situation. But they're not helping their case either, beyond stirring up publicity by painting Valve as the big bad.

I don't really want to argue with you either - you're quite caustic when replying, so sure of your "facts" that I have no will to argue the semantics of "art" vs "sexual" vs whatever.

Like, you're still using the FAQ as the source of truth, but I've already pointed out that it's unreliable. Speaking of...

Quoting: cybolicDo you remember where this was posted?

Nope, sorry. I remember it only vaguely - I follow the IndieDev bot on Bluesky, so I noted the story briefly and moved on.

I think we could do with moving on from this one now.

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yes! I keep it on for streams so people that are interested can see my usage numbers. I don't exactly know what I'm doing with it, so any updates are good updates!!

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Quoting: Linux_RocksThe Intel Atom minimum requirements reminded me about how I miss netbooks. My old ASUS netbook was a great Linux machine.

So true, I miss netbooks too! They were replaced by tablets, but these are not the same devices and I'm not comfortable with touch screens...
I still have two oldies that run Linux since I was at University many years ago, an Acer AOD255 (my first computer bought new) and MSI I don't even remember the model. Nowadays they sit on a shelf but they are still operational in last resort.

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Quoting: amataiNow I see your point. Your disputing that the scene is problematic. [...]

That's not what I wrote, no. I corrected your statement that the game features "depiction of children in a sexualized way", and your statement claiming that the developer's FAQ supported your claim, both of which are false.

Quoting: amataiThe scene had no artistic value according to the faq, so the devs removed it [...]

Again, incorrect. The scene was not removed; the FAQ stated that having a character talk about the societal structure in the world of the game works better when that character is an adult instead of a child, so the age was changed, but the scene remains.

As for whether or not the original scene was sexualized, while you may see "hints" and "sexual undertone"s in the scene, I read it as the juxtaposition between an innocent childhood "piggyback ride" and the institutionalized slavery and subhumanism depicted in the game.
To paraphrase Dee Snider's famous court hearing about censorship, if you approach something looking for certain things, you're likely to find it, whether or not it's actually there.

To make myself perfectly clear, I very much welcome discussion of the content of the game and its ban, and of course think you a free to interpret the original scene in any way you wish, but I cannot stand misinformation.

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One of my favorite IPs that saddly you can't find legally anywhere these days. I still own a copy of Future Perfect on the Original XBOX.
So many hours spent in split screen with friends and family!
If this ever releases on Steam, I'll get it for sure.

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this is interesting... I would've loved to try it, but what am I missing? Steam version doesn't allow installation, just goes to wishlist.. and where are these native linux binaries, that were added to some open source repo?

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Quoting: scaineWe've got a few folk reading the developer's FAQ and commenting about why folk are talking about a scene with a child riding a "horse" in the game - the FAQ has now removed any reference to this.

No, it's still there. They just moved it under the headline of "How old are the characters in HORSES?".

Quoting: scaineHowever, original reports of the issue, on social media, made by the developers, claimed that they submitted an early-release version of the game, in which a live-action sequence [...]

Do you remember where this was posted? I've been following along with the story and distinctly remember them writing that it was not live-action, which also seems to fit better with the aesthetics of the finished game, as I don't recall any live-action element that shows anything other than very specific extreme close-ups (such as, say, "bowl of food" or "hand").

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I would imagine that somewhere long the upward trajectory, that MS would've started to become a little worried, but seems they are just too pigheaded.

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Works well on WINE 10.19, though I had to enable the "capture mouse" option (I play windowed in a WINE desktop). Though I can't get KDE Plasma Wayland to honour the setting.

I think the changes from the update are pretty nice, so far really pleased.
And boy did Reforged give the game a shot in the arm. I can't remember the last time "Europe - English" had more than one active outpost instance outside of seasonal events :D

@Liam: do you have an "Online RPG" tag rather than "MMO"? (nitpicky, I know)

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Quoting: elmapul

Quoting: The_Real_BittermanMaaan glad Linux has CoW file systems. Well doesn't help with downloading but at least storing these chunky games is better.

it was useless in this case, because it couldnt auto detect those file duplications and save space, nor ir would be usefull in an HDD where you really needed those duplications.

The de-duplication process in, say, btrfs is not automatic. Right? You have to run a scan periodically. I doubt many people do this.

However, when you perform such a scan, it compares blocks in the filesystem, which means it can de-duplicate portions of files. Files don't have to be exactly the same content or name or size.

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Quoting: elmapulit was useless in this case, because it couldnt auto detect those file duplications and save space, nor ir would be usefull in an HDD where you really needed those duplications.

Many distributions shipping BtrFS often times also ship out-of-band deduplication tools to do exactly this.

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Quoting: Creepio

Quoting: Brokatt

Quoting: The_Real_BittermanHm, Steam Deck 2 might be ARM based I guess. 🤔

I wouldn't count on it. Valve has a very good relationship with AMD and I don't see another vendor provide an ARM chip with similar gaming performance. But maybe for a Steam Deck 3?

I thought AMD was dabbling or was going to dabble with ARM cpus? If I were AMD, I'd begin transitioning to ARM. x86 days are numbered.

I think claiming x86 days are numbered is like guessing the Year of the Linux Desktop. Those who run ARM (Linux) or into it can't wait for it to be the reality. But the majority of PC users simply don't care.

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I wanted to jump back in here to remind everyone to direct their anger at the Big Corporations & AI Companies for doing this to gamers & consumers.

I'd add the current american administration to that list, exactly for the reason you mentionned : "if you listen to what they say" on the matter. This and the old addage: "Follow the money". They poured billions of tax payers money in Micron. It usually comes with conditions, yet here we are... I don't believe in coincidence.

They even tried to pass laws to block states from hindering this AI scam.

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We've got a few folk reading the developer's FAQ and commenting about why folk are talking about a scene with a child riding a "horse" in the game - the FAQ has now removed any reference to this.

However, original reports of the issue, on social media, made by the developers, claimed that they submitted an early-release version of the game, in which a live-action sequence depicted a young child (about 10-12 years old) riding a "horse" (a naked woman wearing a horse-head). The developers only uploaded this version to create a game-page, but Valve used this version to block-list the game.

While the scene could be argued to not inherently be "sexual" itself, the developer believed that this was the reason for the block and so they attempted to resubmit, after re-filming the scene with a 20-year old version of the character. Valve refused to re-review. Sadly, the social media posts have been removed now, so evidence of this is difficult to source. Also, the developers have changed their story in the FAQ, making it even more difficult to pin down the "real" story.

Hopefully that clears up some of the confusion in previous comments.

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Quoting: Persephone the SheepThat one some how the rubber on the scroll wheel expanded and locked up the wheel.

I have the same issue. I really liked the shape and the feel of the mouse, but it's unusable in its current state. I still got the mouse in my drawer, maybe to restore it when I have time and access to 3D printer. Or not. I kind of get used to USB-C powered mouse I have now, even though I was fan of AA back then. Then I realized how quite some of my AA (mostly Eneloop) batteries got really worse over years.

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I wanted to jump back in here to remind everyone to direct their anger at the Big Corporations & AI Companies for doing this to gamers & consumers.

Anything other than directing the collective hate at the source of the problem is copium.

Intellectual conjecture is useful to an extent, but as a form of expiation your time is better spent improving your IRL.

I really hope that this "selection pressure" causes hobbyists to create "digital hardware innovaitons". This is literally the story behind how Linus Torvalds started Linux -- the cost of the UNIX license was "too damn high" 🤣

If you actually listen to what Larry Page (Google), Elon Musk (X,xAI), and other high up CEO Data Center owners talk about, you'll find your screen as a object of content consumption with remote data is unfortunately infact the plan.

All you have to do is literally read and listen to them to understand their trajectory.

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As someone who has, in the past, moderated communities and had to deal with acceptable vs non-acceptable postings and submissions to their community, I think there's something being missed here.

A lot of submitters will submit something very against the rules, then when you ask them to remove it, submit something slightly against the rules, and they're doing that to figure out their limitations and where you actually draw all the lines. This will happen over and over, sometimes re-reviewing ten or twelve times. Oftentimes, they'll ask you for a point by point violation listing and will sealion your moderation and submission teams to death just trying to get the most past you.

In this case, I don't know if that's what the studio behind HORSES was doing, but I do know that a lot of places have decided that if you fail the first time for a set of specific reasons, you do not go to the front of the queue for re-reviews, and in some cases you may not even be allowed a re-review. What I also don't know is whether the scene described (young girl riding a naked woman like a horse) was actually what crossed the line, or even if the scene as described is what was actually submitted. We only have the studio's word on that, and they've insisted that Valve hasn't said why they were banned. And yet, they ALSO say they removed the scene and requested a re-review. That there is an inconsistency in their story, and digging any level deep shows a large number of these inconsistencies going back with this studio.

By no means do I think Valve is a "great company" or that they're doing wonderful things for the world, but I do think we're intentionally being misled here by the studio and I think their timelines of events do not mesh with how the flow of time in reality works.

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Trying to solve cheating this way is totally backwards.
Let people cheat!
Have a reporting system, and if an account gets reported enough times, pitch that account against other suspected cheaters.
Then have a human review their actions if necessary and ban their account.
No need to invest in anti-cheat systems, only observability.

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Now I see your point. Your disputing that the scene is problematic. I dont want to reactivate anyone trauma so discussion of the scene is under spoiler.

Spoiler, click me

I think that sexualisation of minor is so abhorrent that even a hint is not acceptable. And a child riding a naked adult is a not very subtle hint. Riding someone naked have sexual undertone all over the world.

The scene had no artistic value according to the faq, so the devs removed it as it was detrimental to their narration and it cause their game to be rejected by steam (it is only implicit in the faq so you may dispute the causality there). And now they are capitalizing on their wrongdoing for marketing.

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I have bought a few G305, and they are mostly great, however they cheaped out on the switches. I have multiple where the LMB stopped working reliably after about 1 year of use. It is a bit of a pain to replace, because the screw holes are under the glued-on pads on the bottom of the mouse, and the switches are soldered in. But it is doable to replace them, and the mice have functioned reliably since swapping them out with a different brand.

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Quoting: amataiThen let's agree to disagree.
I am talking of the scene that have caused Horses to be rejected by steam and was then removed. Your sentence

and never contained any scenes where a child was shown in connection with anything sexual.

is incorrect according to Horses faq.

I may be biased due to the cultural context. [...]

We're not disagreeing, as this is not a question of opinion, but of facts.
You keep saying that there was sexual content involving a minor, without providing anything to back it up.
Being biased does not mean you get to misrepresent the actual events; what you could claim is that the description of the scene in question makes you uncomfortable, but not that the scene contained things that there's no evidence for or indication of.

And, once again, now you're claiming that the Horses FAQ states something that it absolutely does not.
This is not bias or difference of opinion, it is just plain lying.

If you want to argue that nudity equals sexual content, or discuss the cultural landscape of current France, then go right ahead, but let's stick to the facts, shall we?

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I've stopped doing Z in a video that does Z, you are asking for whatever you get.

This is the weirdest part. I still say that everything that they did before was probably AI art, but some of the things might be up for debate.

And then they went on and delivered a supposed proof that is definitely AI. I can't get my head around it. Are they that naive to think that the “speed painting” video would believable?

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Quoting: Brokatt

Quoting: The_Real_BittermanHm, Steam Deck 2 might be ARM based I guess. 🤔

I wouldn't count on it. Valve has a very good relationship with AMD and I don't see another vendor provide an ARM chip with similar gaming performance. But maybe for a Steam Deck 3?

I thought AMD was dabbling or was going to dabble with ARM cpus? If I were AMD, I'd begin transitioning to ARM. x86 days are numbered.

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Not only do value wants to kill Xbox, they are also after the windows in general. If the windows app just run ok with fex, there is little reason for me to install windows anymore.

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I have to wonder how possible it is that there's some sort of organization targeting this game like what happened with payment processors recently. These companies (not necessarily Valve, but could again be payment processors or some partners of them too) can easily use the call of an angry organization, no matter how small, as an easy excuse to act on something they agree with but know will draw bad PR, but the excuse hasn't been put up yet so it's hard to say. However all you really need is the right push a lot of the time and censorship gets worse, this should be unacceptable to make sure we can still have art at all in the future.

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I've got this same G305 mouse as my primary desktop mouse. I use it with rechargeable AA battery, and keep a spare AA charged up and in easy reach. Typically, I use this mouse for gaming and for general computing and it takes more than a month for the battery to need replacing.

As I said, I keep a spare rechargeable close by, so when charge runs out, it just gets swapped over and I keep on mousing. One important note to share about AA batteries - Do *NOT* use the non-rechargeable alkaline types, even big brands like Duracell. The reason - Alkaline batteries leak, mess up the battery contacts, and the leakage can damage the electronic circuits.

Another thing to say - Both my Logitech keyboard and Logitech mouse provide remaining battery charge information to the Linux power management software. You can check the charge status whenever you want. You could even script it so that you get an alert when your computer's power management detects low battery.

 
upower -i /org/freedesktop/UPower/devices/battery_hidpp_battery_1

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Imagine if the other 2 providers did the same thing. lol
I don't see how Valve can make hardware under these situations.

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So is this what was happening down south during The Long Dark?

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Then let's agree to disagree.
I am talking of the scene that have caused Horses to be rejected by steam and was then removed. Your sentence

and never contained any scenes where a child was shown in connection with anything sexual.

is incorrect according to Horses faq.

I may be biased due to the cultural context. France went from very tolerant to mixing sexuality with minor to extremely hostile in the last few years due to a storm of chocking revelations and high-profile cases. There was way worse than Antichrist dating from 2009. The opinion have shifted sharply and a film with a similar scene would struggle to be projected at Cannes in 2026. I have read a ton of testimony of survivors of abuse that were published in the press, so the subject become touchy for me.

The points that I tried to pass, maybe badly as I'am not a native English speaker was that the rejection of the game that was sent to steam is unsurprising considering steam rule which are, in my mind, very relaxed.
The debate did go on should steam rules be even more relaxed. But the debate I expected is whether Steam should provide a second chance with its selection process. And I think that it should not in such a case. If they really wanted to ship the scene, they should have followed steam rules and provided a patch like most Japanese eroge.

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Quoting: KimyrielleAnyone had any success with it?

I had some problems with it being slow to start but otherwise it seems to work fine. Only played for 10 minutes to see if everything worked.

But I'm using the standalone client through Lutris and ProtonGE.

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