Quoting: axredneck

Quoting: jrtWhat do I need ProtonUP for? There is an AUR package that updates proton-ge with normal system updates and you could probably do the same with a deb/rpm repository. I don't like a separate tool to update individual components. I'm a strong believer in the benefits of package managers.

Arch installs ProtonGE to /usr while ProtonUP installs it to ~/.steam

Exactly. I ended up removing the AUR package because of this, I will give ProtonUp a try :smile:

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Quoting: scaine

Quoting: furaxhornyxNo offense, but I have tried Ubuntu Studio, and it is nowhere near a good out-of-the-box experience... In fact that's probably one of the worst distro I tried, and if I didn't have tried others before (and thus know better about the Linux experience), I would probably have migrated to Windows 10 by now...
I have spent quite a lot of time trying to figure out how to tweak Jack and pulseaudio with Cadence, and even now, I am not fully satisfied with this "solution", which is more of a "workaround".
I wish there was a CoreAudio equivalent in Linux (to be fair, I wish it would have been the case in Windows, too). Maybe with Pipewire ?

When did you last try? I ask because Jason Evanghelo thought the same back in 2019, but I think was quite positive about later versions? They lost a lot of developers between 2016 and 2018, which led to some serious stagnation.

I don't remember precisely, but it was somewhere between last summer (2020) and beginning of the year. it was before I got my Ryzen, anyway.

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Quoting: BOYSSSSS

Quoting: PJWith Gnome you just install 2-3 extensions, tweak the same amount of settings (for example turn on extra window buttons) and install icon theme. With KDE you add a theme and spend quite a bit going through the settings then disable/tweak stuff that does not work so well

This is one of the biggest misconceptions the Linux community has that makes Linux very unfriendly to new users.
You think that it's easy for a newbie to search the whole internet (Linux wikis, forums etc.) for a command that will need to be put in the terminal to run something. And at the same time you think it's hard for anyone to find a button in System Settings or Launcher Menu.
It's the opposite! You even have a search bar to help you with finding things.
This is what annoyed me to no end when I first started using Linux. Every little thing needed a command. If there's a setting or GUI it's easy for me. I will find it and change it and I'll remember that the setting is there. But I can't remember every single command that is needed to change something that I may never use again. (That's why I have a txt file with all the commands I've ever needed to do in case I need them again)
And that's why Linux will always be unfriendly to newbies. The Linux community doesn't understand that simple fact and instead thinks too much settings are hard to remember.
>Oh NO! I need to remember where this setting in the interface is! That's too hard!
>If only I could install some packages, change some config files with root privileges and run some commands in the terminal after some googling.

I'll have to agree with this: coming from Windows, it is impressive that it seems you cannot do anything without having to use the terminal to get things done (when copy/pasting from the internet works right away, that is...).

Quoting: scaine[...]

Quoting: PJyes - and its backed by the OS. For example - on OSX you basically connect an audio device and you have low latency audio out of the box.
On Windows you need to add some special drivers. Oh, and have you tried it on Linux? Yes, in theory it is doable but you need to fiddle with JACK and preferably custom kernel. I doubt most of musicians would go with that - not because they're not capable to learn it, but because fiddling with systems is not their job.

Well, no, this isn't really true. Like you say, you should be backed the OS, right? So if you're a sound engineer or musician and want to use Linux, you make sure you install something like Ubuntu Studio, and then it just works out of the box. [...]

No offense, but I have tried Ubuntu Studio, and it is nowhere near a good out-of-the-box experience... In fact that's probably one of the worst distro I tried, and if I didn't have tried others before (and thus know better about the Linux experience), I would probably have migrated to Windows 10 by now...
I have spent quite a lot of time trying to figure out how to tweak Jack and pulseaudio with Cadence, and even now, I am not fully satisfied with this "solution", which is more of a "workaround".
I wish there was a CoreAudio equivalent in Linux (to be fair, I wish it would have been the case in Windows, too). Maybe with Pipewire ?

Quoting: Philadelphus

Quoting: CatKillerThis is a fallacy, btw. If you're not into computers, you're only looking skin-deep. "This is the Internet, this is the app store, this is the update button" is all they need to know. Linux is the ideal grandmother OS. It's the Windows Power Users that have the hardest time; they're very familiar with the entrails of Windows and freak out about Linux' guts being different when they try to poke at them.

Mm, you have a point, and I don't disagree that Linux can be the perfect "grandmother OS", but if that grandmother has been using Windows I imagine she'd be more comfortable with a DE that looks similar, skin-wise, and doesn't require re-learning where the links to all those things are. :smile:

Fun fact: my grandmother actually has been using OpenSuse for over a decade now I believe (and she's quite happy about it, except when the printer decides to stop working for no apparent reason :tongue:)

EDIT:

Quoting: scaine[...]Hopefully Linux gets to the point that everything is as click and play as Steam and the Pop Shop.

I can only agree with that :smile:

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More recipes ? I'm in! Cooking is life :tongue:

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Quoting: mrdeathjr

Quoting: TheRiddickHere is some games with issues to illustrate my point. MESA/RADV, no idea about nvidia.

ELEX (requires workaround or gfx glitching)
Risen3 (same as above but crashes randomly often)
Max Payne 3 (tessellation bugged on RADV)
Operation Flashpoint 2 + Red River (needs gfw fix, but menu ctd, doesn't render).
NMS (people complain about random issues all the time)

The list goes on, basically Valve needs to address some backward compatibility with older games via proton more IMO.

Then we have all the anticheat stuff on top... for the most part broken with proton.

In my case with wine (no proton) and nvidia geforce gtx 1050:

elex runs ok - risen 3 (32bits) runs ok - max payne 3 (no test for now)

:smile:

In my case, with Proton (with the latest version at the time of play) and nVidia 1070, I can confirm that Elex was good and Risen 3 too.

My impression when looking for compatibility on protonDB was that, most of the time, the issues were occuring on AMD GPU ; I don't know how it is currently, as I have stopped buying games most games without a native version
(I still reserve myself the right to buy some games that I really want to play, such as Cyberpunk, Horizon Zero Dawn, and Bloodlines 2, because I am pretty sure they will never see a native version anyway).

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: PJ

Quoting: Purple Library GuyMint with Mate is IMO good, and very familiar to a classic Windows user, right out of the box.

but IMO that's the wrong approach. Why would you go for a Windows clone if you can actually use Windows?

Because Windows friggin' harasses you all the time.
I have no problems with the basic "stuff you do with a mouse" of Windows. Neither, I might add, do most people who already use Windows, who you're trying to get to move over. You are not going to generate enthusiasm for Linux among Windows users by saying "You'll get to do your whole workflow all different! Woo!" Nobody wants that. Even if it's an objectively (whatever that means in UI terms) better workflow, they still don't want it.

What's annoying about Windows is mostly all the Xtra Proprietary-ness. The way if you're not using Microsoft Edge as your browser (and who does?) it will keep on badgering you to start. The way it keeps popping up weird notifications that sound like something dire but if you think about it for a while is actually just them complaining that you set your settings not to hand over all your data. The other popups that are basically just incomprehensible and almost certainly irrelevant, but which sound like your computer is on fire or something. The "We just locked up your computer for a while so we can do updates" BS.
There's also the way that, since most of the software you're using is not open source and comes from various different vendors, they all separately and individually bug you about software updates (which half of them probably do badly), instead of your distro handling it all together. Software on Windows updates the way my games would if I bought each one individually from its vendor's own website instead of having Steam. Heck, even on my work machine, which is centrally updated by our fairly competent IT people, I still get a bunch of popups, from Firefox and Adobe and various ones that don't even say who they are just that it's desperately important for your software to update. Of course I have to tell them all no, because I know that if anyone's going to be updating any software on that desktop it'll be our IT people--but clearly they have no way of getting all that shit to shut up. Never have that on Linux. Just the little icon on the taskbar shows me there's updates I could install, and I can do them all at once when I'm not in the middle of something.
I also don't like the Windows non-tabbed file manager, and I don't like the way when I plug in a USB it just doesn't do anything, so I have to open some random folder and go find the USB in the Windows file manager's little list o' drives at the left side. And I'm pleased with Linux being somewhat less vulnerable to malware. And I like most of my software being open source and installable from one GUI. And I like that it doesn't phone home. And I'm pleased that, having the base vaguely Windows-like behaviour that I'm used to, I can then tweak things to suit, mostly in small ways, if I feel like it.

But the basic way stuff operates--what a left or right click does, the existence of the task bar that shows different things I have open, the menu at the lower left and so on, I have no interest in all the gee whiz clever stuff that people have come up with to make better, and I'd wager that if you took a poll among Windows users the majority would also be in that camp. So if you want to bring over Windows users to Linux, you might want to consider that they may not think their fundamental UI is broken and that therefore you might not want to try to fix it for them.

Overall, I agree with that.

When I made the switch (back in September 2019) from Windows 7 (which gave me full satisfaction by the way, but you know, end of support BS) to Linux, I wasn't looking for something arguably better or different. I wanted to find a replacement for Windows 7 look and feel, and Cinnamon filled that job for me.

I guess it would be the same for someone who would like to switch from Mac, they would probably be looking for something that resemble what they previously had. Because the DE is usually not the main reason to switch OS.

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I hope these will help fixing the issues I am having with Jack over PulseAudio (this is the only way I found to have my Komplete Audio 6 to run semi-properly...)

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6 new chaos spells ? I think I know what I will try next, when I'm done with Loop Hero :smile:

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Quoting: denyasis

Quoting: grumpytoadI'm just glad they're calling it a PC, so we can finally put that mainstream mentality that a PC is a windows OS to bed.

Maybe I'm reading it weird, but from the context, I'm less certain they don't mean "PC is Windows" and thier understanding of proton is so poor they are confusing the basics.

I think it was a reference to mentions like "[New shiny game] will be released on XBox, PlayStation, and PC", when in fact "PC" should read "Windows", assuming that a PC can only be running Windows.

With the Steam Deck being announced both as a "PC" and running an OS built on Proton Linux, we can hopefully that theses annoucements will stop. Hopefully...

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I am glad to see I wasn't the only one to smell marketing behind the "Angstrom" naming...
(Sorry with the spelling, but is is indeed a pain to write properly on a keyboard)

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