Quoting: Mountain Man

Quoting: truebluewooSo I am in complete agreement with @Nanobang

Every opportunity google has had to make a proper linux product, it does something insidious with it. they cannot get past data gathering / data monetisation its sickening.

They had the proper opportunity and resources to create a competing desktop linux platform, instead they build chromeos and chromeos is completely useless. They could throw some weight into wayland or even built and released their own version like canonical tried with mir, or worked with mir. In all cases nope instead they went down the selfish route of chromeos, which only they benefit from, it may run on linux but it did nothing to help desktop linux.

Android again does absolutely nothing to help with desktop linux, sure you can develop apps on linux, but can you run those same apps on linux as well ? Is there a native google apps for linux ? Nope, again its completely selfish.

Here now they announce stadia, great it runs on linux using vulkan, but instead of helping current efforts to improve gaming they build their own api, if this ever becomes succesful they will build out their own api make it completely incompatible with anything available on linux, contribute nothing useful back and infact make the situation worse.

Google suck, they have had so many opportunities to actually invest in a proper useful linux desktop platform, they could have either taken gtk or qt / kde and spent a year producing an amazing linux desktop experience and then building and selling custom hardware for it (like their pixel laptop) they could have integrated android apps, created a google drive sync made all of this available for any linux desktop distro and / or user to integrate and sell solutions for the normal novice to get behind, but instead at every opportunity all they can see is monetisation of data, basically they are as bad as microsoft they only use / abuse linux they do nothing useful for us.

Here is the real kicker, chrome was based off of webkit (which apple took from kde konqueror), they then forked from webkit and created blink, is anything from blink useable on kde ? I think not At least when Apple forked from konqueror and created webkit they gave back to the kde community, Google never gives back anything useful, everything gets wrapped into their shitty advertising platform and their shitty data gathering platforms.

It's almost like Google is a business that wants to make money. Weird.

OK, I'm being slightly tongue in cheek. I don't trust Google, and I don't like their way of doing business, but unfortunately, the "Linux way" of free software (as in speech and in some cases beer) does not lead to untold riches. It's why companies like Apple, Microsoft, and Google continue to dominate with their anti-consumer lock-in business strategy while Canonical and Red Hat are small peanuts in comparison.

Hey look, I get they are a business, but you miss the entire point I am trying to make - google cant see the wood for the trees. It cannot see past advertising and data mining and this has hurt its reputation in every other market they try to enter, because its a matter of trust.

Also FYI RHEL was a multi-billion dollar business, its not small peanuts in comparison and they are owned by IBM and IBM is certainly not small peanuts, also IBM has done a great deal for Linux especially in the server space.

You also miss another massive point, Google owes its existence to Linux and open-source, without it they would have never been able to grow to scale as quickly as they did. If it wasn't for open source tech there is no way they could build white box machines, cluster them together and provide search results at scale.

big businesses will not use google apps because of trust issues, they insisted on data mining emails even for corporations paying money for google apps services, this completely stunted its growth, they reversed this decision a year or two ago, but talk about being completely single visioned - they had an opportunity to basically take over corporate emails and they squandered it because of this instance on data mining.

Same thing with Google Cloud Compute, again its market share is poultry, again when they initially released it every single instance had a little google bot on there ready for data mining, which they then removed. Its a matter of trust you hurt your reputation, you build no trust when you insist that everyones data belongs to you.

This same insistence is why chromeos could have been massive if they made a proper linux desktop os, helped the open source community to actually build out either kde or gnome, integrated play store and sold it by selling hardware (like apple), it would be massive, but again they just are incapable of seeing other revenue making ideas, of getting away from this single focus on monetizing data, there are many ways to make income and some of those ways can be done without being seen as being "EVIL" ("DO NO EVIL")

Infact the one company that has done exactly this is Valve - I have so much respect for what valve have done over the past few years for desktop linux as a whole.

I am also being very harsh on google, there is a reason in spite of everything I am saying I still use their products:

* golang - makes them no revenue but its a brilliant programming language.
* python - the creator of python works at google so basically google funds python development.
* linux kernel - google and google engineers have contributed a great deal to the kernel.
* kubernetes - basically started off in google

there is probably a tonne of other stuff google have developed and been a part of which they dont get credit for, and they are a genuinely innovative company, I dont hold hatred for them, its just they need to think outside of just data mining as their only revenue source.

I hold out hope that they at least get vulkan renderers added to all game engines.

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So I am in complete agreement with @Nanobang

Every opportunity google has had to make a proper linux product, it does something insidious with it. they cannot get past data gathering / data monetisation its sickening.

They had the proper opportunity and resources to create a competing desktop linux platform, instead they build chromeos and chromeos is completely useless. They could throw some weight into wayland or even built and released their own version like canonical tried with mir, or worked with mir. In all cases nope instead they went down the selfish route of chromeos, which only they benefit from, it may run on linux but it did nothing to help desktop linux.

Android again does absolutely nothing to help with desktop linux, sure you can develop apps on linux, but can you run those same apps on linux as well ? Is there a native google apps for linux ? Nope, again its completely selfish.

Here now they announce stadia, great it runs on linux using vulkan, but instead of helping current efforts to improve gaming they build their own api, if this ever becomes succesful they will build out their own api make it completely incompatible with anything available on linux, contribute nothing useful back and infact make the situation worse.

Google suck, they have had so many opportunities to actually invest in a proper useful linux desktop platform, they could have either taken gtk or qt / kde and spent a year producing an amazing linux desktop experience and then building and selling custom hardware for it (like their pixel laptop) they could have integrated android apps, created a google drive sync made all of this available for any linux desktop distro and / or user to integrate and sell solutions for the normal novice to get behind, but instead at every opportunity all they can see is monetisation of data, basically they are as bad as microsoft they only use / abuse linux they do nothing useful for us.

Here is the real kicker, chrome was based off of webkit (which apple took from kde konqueror), they then forked from webkit and created blink, is anything from blink useable on kde ? I think not At least when Apple forked from konqueror and created webkit they gave back to the kde community, Google never gives back anything useful, everything gets wrapped into their shitty advertising platform and their shitty data gathering platforms.

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Yeah I just purchased this, thanks for the heads up.

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@jaycee has the right implementation, the ability to be able to have and use multiple .so files (a smarter shared object linking mechanism)- there could be an even simpler solution where the game ships with its required .so files bundled with the game as part of the installation - completely removing dependency issues. Its kind of a no-brainer really

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Liam,

Crazy thought if valve developers happen to look through this site / are aware of this site.

It might be worthwhile reaching out to Valve and to Gabe Newell and see if they would be interested in doing an interview for this site.

We might get some interesting insights into what they are planning for SteamOS / Linux gaming.

I was really down on Valve for a while, only because I really wanted linux gaming and what they had put into motion to succeed. On reflection what they have done and allowed is incredible.

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It depends, if you want gaming to get serious on Linux, then we need Battlefield, titanfall 2 and Call Of Duty, this is what sells platforms, we need native optimised versions not just ports with fluctuating performance.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/12/4826190/linux-only-needs-one-killer-game-to-explode-says-battlefield-director [External Link]

This is pretty much true. I love reading comments from any linux related article on major sites, the first few posts are usually complete shills instantly s****ing on linux, mostly with complete fabrications / lies ... Yeah Linux looks like old windows.

What sells platforms is exclusives, Valve know this but don't want to alienate their windows customer base. I don't blame them. I really would like a really good FPS that pushes my hardware. Can you imagine how many would rush out and install or buy steamos boxes if Half-Life 3 released as a steamos exclusive for 6 months ?

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To the guy stating it has to be drm free on linux or i'll buy it on windows. Linux is about freedom, end-of. To state it has to be drm free only on linux, You know what, https://youtu.be/iYWzMvlj2RQ?t=31s [External Link]

Sorry that was harsh, do whatever you want. The reality is Linux is open-source: https://youtu.be/XMm0HsmOTFI?t=33m23s [External Link]. Calling for DRM free or else is just absurd. I use Linux because I prefer Linux, I buy games on Linux, because I prefer to use Linux.

Games are not always drm free, games publishers and software publishers are free to do as they please on Linux as they are on any other platform. Run Linux if you want, run windows if you want, but stop being an ass. Your just trying to be spiteful towards Feral, what in the hopes that they stop porting to Linux all together ? Is that your intent ? What are you demonstrating here exactly ? I think that is the more important question. What do you actually hope to gain by doing this ?

Feral thank you, I will also be purchasing this when it gets released, in fact there is a few games I've gotta get, which I'll get when this gets released.

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Linux adoption rate at one point was rumoured to be about 8 - 10% world wide, the numbers have since nose dived mainly due to apple going the unix route (although I would bet its still around 7 -8%). A few years back many laptop manufacturers where providing linux laptops in places like Malaysia, china etc. this was the tail end of winxp era. Ive been running linux solely as my main platform for a long time, a very long time and I am a believer in the open source model and its also the field I work in.

Numbers always fluctuate, we are talking about games sales here (which puts linux about 1%) and all companies are driven by money, most of us also want to be financially independent, which requires us to have decent well paid jobs. Forget the mega corps here, the ones that wont even look our way (like activision or EA) these developers are by no means massive and they are trying their best.

Its also Aspyr that hangs posters of peoples comments on their walls, read this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/2inq5s/why_aspyr_for_greatness/?st=iu1z51ls&sh=880b7fd3 [External Link]

or this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2sm72d/aspyr_media_are_you_profitable/?st=iu1z50b1&sh=5022a4ab [External Link]

Which practically confirms what I was thinking, I just looked up aspyr and poster comments in google and came across those two threads. They were just about breaking even with the ports, believe me when I say this, that's not enough to justify sustained development, especially if your met with hostile customers. Honestly the one thing I've learnt is patience and being polite and kind, you do catch more flies with honey, its a simple truth. I also hugely respect Aspyr, because their feedback and their response, tells me they are passionate about what they do and they do genuinely care.

I am also pissed at valve for good reason, they opened this whole thing up because they said they believed in an open platform to try and push gaming, because they were afraid that windows would become a walled garden and they are in a unique position to push for change, but they have so far half-assed this whole endeavour. I get the feeling from them that internally it was a nice to have, but since then they just seemed to have lost interest, chasing after the next shiny toy.

I know Microsoft, they will take any opportunity to advance their cause, the will lie, cheat and steal (like they have in the past) to advance whatever keeps them at major desktop monopoly status, without that monopoly they become irrelevant, they know this, we know this. With valve half-assing and with the quality of games on the steam store tanking, it opens the doors for Microsoft to make a solid walled garden and to lock their users solidly inside it.

Right now they have kind-of backed off with the windows store, but windows 10 is a clear sign of their intent and this whole xbox live, buy a game on xbox and play across xbox consoles or windows pcs, is them sugar coating the poison that will follow. People are ultimately like sheep, they can be herded quite easily, none of us like to admit this, but its the truth successive wars have shown this about us, advertisements are designed to trigger this in our brains and its something we have evolved with and is inherent in our psychology, in our dna. When given the choice between something difficult and something easy we take the route of least resistance. Also the older we get, the more resistance to change we develop. Mega corps and even governments exploit this, they exploit our resistance and fear of change, our fear of difference. This is where FUD comes from, anyway I digress. Linux isnt the cure for all of the worlds ills and its something that Microsoft cannot stop. It does however stand up to the mega-corps of the world and does show an alternative route based around collaboration rather than just purely competition and its a world I would rather live in, who knows what the future will hold and what will ultimately happen, however technology will advance and things will change. Empires will rise and empires will fall, valve would do well to take note.

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I'm quite disappointed, I'm guessing aspyr was hoping steamos would be in a better state than it is right now, with a bigger market share.

There are other difficulties as well, the Linux opengl stack is actively being developed and has moved on to supporting Vulkan. Apple have intentionally stopped supporting openGL and gone to their own proprietary metal api.

Aspyr's loyalty has always been Mac and mac has around 5% market share, if SteamOS had taken off, then they would be porting regardless of how many difficulties they would have to overcome, or fireaxis would have ported directly. Right now to fully support Linux they would need to utilise the latest openGL specs, which they cant do as apple doesn't support it.

We are tiny, with just 1% market share and unfortunately some of us have become a bit self-entitled. We were hungry for every game port and thankful for any decent port, now there are talks of boycotts for any company that doesn't meet our expectations.

I wish people would just chill out, being kind and nice to every developer or porter is better than turning nasty if we dont get our own way. I think the saying goes you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar ( http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/You+can+catch+more+flies+with+honey+than+with+vinegar) [External Link]

Ultimately when we are a nice polite community, developers will be more open with us, if we treat them with respect they will treat us with respect. Stop demanding, stop rioting, chill out, be polite approach the developers with a polite and respectful attitude. I am forever grateful for Aspyr porting civ 5, its the game I've played the most on steam since it came to Linux, Both Aspyr and Feral try hard and there really isn't much reward for them porting, having to deal with a spoilt angry community will drive them away.

Our market share isn't making them super rich, but they still port games. I hope some day SteamOs does take off and I hope Linux can break free from the shackles imposed by companies like Apple and Microsoft and be able to stand on its own two feet with its own respectable market share, but for now I am always grateful to any games company or studio taking the time out to try and do a respectable port.

Ultimately though I am pissed with Valve, they just Half-Ass everything, seriously no new games in years, their steamos support has been shite, steamos boxes are far too overpriced, they jump onto vr don't even provide steamos support and vr on pc is just too expensive and by all accounts its flopped.

They are all over the shop and they are the only ones that can actually make a dent / make a difference. If they announced left for dead 3 tomorrow, using vulkan, with stellar performance on SteamOS, with a 3 month timed exclusivity for SteamOS, it would dramatically impact linux gaming, but they wont do it, they dont even need to have timed exclusivity they just need to bring out new AAA games with SteamOS as a 1st party citizen with stellar performance, something to really show off what SteamOS and by extension Linux is capable of.

Look at it this way, can you blame Aspyr or any games company for having waning Linux aspirations, when the company that initially headed up this charge, has been half-assing support as much as valve has recently for steamos ? What new feature in SteamOS have you seen that has made you think, yeah Valve are definitely still trying ?

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Im straight on this, I realise its been largely ignored by big media and other platforms, as they have a greater choice when it comes to AAA fps'

Its a fps using cryengine, with what looks like a decent single player campaign, it should be gorgeous and hopefully push the hardware.

I hope its not badly optimised. I liked the sound of the game and the trailers looked good, held off buying it on a console for the steam os / linux release.

I don't generally trust games reviewers they mostly have an agenda to push. Also only way I see us getting other games companies to notice us, is by more purchases. I certainly want to support deepsilver as they have done a good job supporting us with new releases.

Its a shame none of valves fps games are really graphically taxing and they are old games to be honest, it would be good if they came out with a new instalment of left 4 dead, or anything new to be honest.

I hope steam controller support is good for this, I've got one of my ps4 controllers working on steamos and its excellent (I'm still not sold on the touchpad on the steam controller - it just doesn't feel right for me)

Also any more news for civ 6 ? I cant wait for that to launch as well.

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