Quoting: Pengling

Quoting: denyasisI wouldn't be surprised if it does a survey on first run (which is ancedotally consistent with my experience with Steam; survey on new installation.)

Man, that's so weird to me - I've got Steam installed on three machines, and I've never had the survey at all! :shock: I'm a relatively recent Steam user though (my account's not even a year old yet), having returned to PC-gaming after an extremely long absence (I left it behind when you could still buy big-box games from Toys 'R' Us and Woolworths, and when Electronics Boutique UK still existed), so I wonder if that's a factor?

That's so odd. Well I stand corrected. I will say, everytime I've distro hoped, the first time I've run steam, I got the survey. Most recently a few months ago, when I switched to Manjaro on my desktop and laptop. I just assumed it was a first run thing on a new install.

I guess, with the Decks, it could just be harvesting it all in the background anyway. Not like steam doesn't phone home, I think it would be silly to think it doesn't send the same user data along with it.

Quoting: udekmp69

Quoting: denyasisQuestion, I'm not familiar with snap/flatpack, but if it keeps everything in the container, does that mean it limits what it can access outside the container? Like prevents Steam from reading the rest of my /home partition for example?

Yes. Although different applications have different permissions by default, I would recommend installing flatseal to a get a good GUI for permissions of each application including Steam. Steam's flatpak default permission cannot see anything other than ~/.var/app/com.valvesoftware.Steam/. You can give it an additional permission to see a 'steamlibrary' folder on a secondary hard drive as well. Flatpak has room for improvement but I generally prefer it for closed source applications if it works okay with it.

Thanks! I'll have to check it out. Steam lost a little bit of it's luster for me recently when it wouldn't allow me to start a game unless I let it upload the contents on the game directory to Valve (I had installed some mods manually). Kinda made me wonder what else it uploads and goes through.

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Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: denyasisI'm no dev, and maybe I'm fundamentally not understanding the purpose of OSI and similar licenses, but I thought if you take an existing OSI licensed code base, added/changed/modified it, that your finished product would still need to be Open Source, right?

Nope. There are plenty of OSI-approved licences [External Link] that aren't copyleft.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: denyasis

Quoting: NociferA) There is a slight difference between restructuring and open-sourcing an already existing code base, and developing something as open source from the ground up

I'm no dev, and maybe I'm fundamentally not understanding the purpose of OSI and similar licenses, but I thought if you take an existing OSI licensed code base, added/changed/modified it, that your finished product would still need to be Open Source, right?

Yeah, Valve could have written some closed source code for proton, but given the number of open source projects they rely on, how much could the realistically make closed? The installer script maybe?

I think the FSF has a good page explaining free software (and another how "open source" is not equivalent): FSF page [External Link]

Thanks! I knew you could write proprietary code and have it "talk to" OSI stuff, I didn't know you could take some OSI stuff and make it proprietary. I guess a good example would be the proprietary tech porting houses use ( which is probably based on WINE), right?

Quoting: Frawo

Quoting: GuestIt's tricky and costly for me. IF the game is one I'll play on the Steam Deck then I obviously buy it on Steam...it's just too easy, but then I tend to add the game to my wishlist at GoG and when the price is low enough I plan to buy it on GoG to create an offline back for future game preservation playing. If it's a game I will only ever play on my PC, then I snag it on GoG only.
Being able to have an offline backup of a game (even if only Windows), is very important to me...I am also enjoying my old NES games now thanks to owning the physical game and getting an Analogue NT Mini a while back, and it got me think about what if I want to play a game (backlog or replay) in 10, 20, 30 years....will Steam be around?

P.S. Yes, I have an older computer and my current computer that I plan to keep alive and drivers back up offline for future needs.

There is no need to rebuy a game on GOG just to have an offline backup. For Steam games, you can also make a backup of your "common" folder (and maybe "compatdata" for non native games), and you're good to go. :smile:

I can't speak for everyone, but I believe the general thought here is when Valve and Steam are gone. If the game doesn't require Stan to run (DRM free), you would be ok, but otherwise, those games are lost.
Not presuming anyone's age here, but a lot of us probably remember the "store wars" 10-15 years ago. When those stores closed, you lost your games.

That was a BIG selling point for GOG at it's inception. Some people really hated the mandatory client/DRM thing Steam and others did.

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Quoting: NociferA) There is a slight difference between restructuring and open-sourcing an already existing code base, and developing something as open source from the ground up

I'm no dev, and maybe I'm fundamentally not understanding the purpose of OSI and similar licenses, but I thought if you take an existing OSI licensed code base, added/changed/modified it, that your finished product would still need to be Open Source, right?

Yeah, Valve could have written some closed source code for proton, but given the number of open source projects they rely on, how much could the realistically make closed? The installer script maybe?

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Quoting: Guest1.18% of the survey were GNU+Linux users, and 7.57% of those were Steam Deck owners, which means \~0.09% of Steam users have a Steam Deck (9 in 10,000).

Steam's last announced figure of 132 million monthly active users came at the beginning of 2022.
That comes out to a little over 100,000 Steam Decks in the wild (unless my maths is wrong). That seems reasonable, based on what I've heard about estimated numbers of shipped units (approx 6,000 per week).

Though not everyone with a Deck is getting opted-in to the survey, so it's more of a snapshot than definitive numbers.

Agreed, I think the 118k number is probably pretty accurate. It's also in Valve's interest to force a survey for every Deck, not only to show strong numbers, but to comparee purchase with usage. I wouldn't be surprised if it does a survey on first run (which is ancedotally consistent with my experience with Steam; survey on new installation.)

Quoting: udekmp69

Quoting: fireplaceI’m glad the Steam Flatpak is getting more traction. Native games on Linux sometimes required libraries outside of the Steam runtime, and developers don’t notice this and just say that it only supports ubuntu or fedora or some crap like that. Now with the Flatpak, it’ll be clear as day if the native game works or not.

Flatpak Steam has some issues but mostly with older native goldscr games and is easily fixable with a launch option. However I use it simply due to organization and the fact it limits read/write of all my other files on my desktop. 100% recommend the steam flatpak especially if you hate when native linux games just throw folders anywhere in /home/.

Question, I'm not familiar with snap/flatpack, but if it keeps everything in the container, does that mean it limits what it can access outside the container? Like prevents Steam from reading the rest of my /home partition for example?

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Quoting: WMan22

Quoting: denyasisSo that's about 118,000 Deck Users. I guess that's a good number for sales, but I guess I was expecting the over all Linux % to be more positively affected by the Deck. I guess it'll take more time. Hopefully it translates into more mainstream Linux use as well.

A lot of people are just waiting for the mere opportunity to pick up their Steam Deck. The platform's rolling out so slowly, though I'd prefer they do it this way over just bulk releasing them and have scalpers snatch em all up and run into the same problem anyway.

Very true. I totally agree. In the Deck revenue article a few weeks ago, I estimated a minimum of 75,000 basic deck sales, so 118,000 seems realistic. I think for me all the hype we hear about it makes it seem like everyone is buying them (not just waiting), so I imagined the sales numbers / Linux users would be higher. Especially with Valve announcing a ramp up in production. It's still, what, 8000 ish Decks a week, which is pretty good.

I guess I internally overlook the slow roll out. Which is probably the purpose of the hype from Valve's end.

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So that's about 118,000 Deck Users. I guess that's a good number for sales, but I guess I was expecting the over all Linux % to be more positively affected by the Deck. I guess it'll take more time. Hopefully it translates into more mainstream Linux use as well.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyI think you're making an unwarranted assumption. I don't think the principles involved hurt them.

I would disagree. I think they were hampered by them. I think It made it hard to move away from them, creating issues that didn't exist on Steam. As @ObsidianBlk pointed out, the main thing was a DRM free back catalogue of nostalgia that no one else had... Then those games got published on Steam. They had to change away from that core business model to keep up.

I agree that their principles are nice and I agree with @ObsidianBlk and you that they probably helped get them off the ground, but I do think their existence made it more difficult to adjust to a competitor with some superior offerings and no self imposed constraints. Now they've certainly made many other mistakes asking the way, I absolutely agree with you completely with that, but limiting your business model to something that most gamers don't really see as a purchase altering priority, I would argue, does hurt then a bit.

Edit- sorry @ObsidianBlk. I totally butchered your name when typing.

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I'm a little sad GOG is struggling, but their business model failed and they seem to be struggling with what to do next.

Which is a problem when your business model is to be the anti-Steam and in the process, Steam becomes a near Monopoly.

I'm the end, turns out people are really more ok with DRM and a nice, albeit mandatory, client than they bet on.

How do you retake market space without alienating uses that bought in on those founding principles?

Perhaps the bigger problem is that they had principles in the first place.

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And your talking wholesale factory prices for the parts, that's set in the bids and contracts and probably locked in. Valve is probably paying the same for the various parts.

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Quoting: BeamboomThis is actually so common that people would probably be surprised. Over a certain timespan, purchase a stack of the same model of some computer, tear them apart and you *will* find differences.

And it's been like this since forever. I recall home computers back in the 80s when we had a ball tinkering with those things: The same model could even have different chipsets on the motherboard. All depending on what production line it came out of.

I'm actually surprised that isn't common knowledge. Do people really believe everything is made exactly the same and sole sourced? Everything that's mass produced has multiple suppliers resulting in varying parts. Hell, there might even be assembly/quality differences if Deck's are made in different factories. I've run into that before with other items.

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