Quoting: burningserenity

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Egonaut

Quoting: nox

Quoting: EgonautThat's why you don't support that toxic guy Garry and everyone who's working with him.

Meh, he is straight forward, blunt and sarcastic. Toxic isn't really the right word.

Calling Linux (and by that their users) a second class [External Link] isn't toxic? Yeah sure, defend that guy further if you want, I don't.

But he is correct, the Linux version is a second class citizen for them. There is nothing toxic with that, second class citizen in computer speak only means that it's a lower priority, it's not a derogatory term.

Here's an idea: by the dev's admission, only 17 people use Linux. So why not just give us the source code? No one else can be bothered to compile it. Hell, if we give him $240 he'll even get to keep the money from the lost sales!

It's note like there is a source of The Linux Version that is also not The Windows Version. I get what you are saying but this will never happen, there are several examples of publishers that rather see zero sales than earn some money by selling a license or source code.

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Quoting: Egonaut

Quoting: nox

Quoting: EgonautThat's why you don't support that toxic guy Garry and everyone who's working with him.

Meh, he is straight forward, blunt and sarcastic. Toxic isn't really the right word.

Calling Linux (and by that their users) a second class [External Link] isn't toxic? Yeah sure, defend that guy further if you want, I don't.

But he is correct, the Linux version is a second class citizen for them. There is nothing toxic with that, second class citizen in computer speak only means that it's a lower priority, it's not a derogatory term.

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Quoting: DuncFrom the article:

Video games have been running at 60 fps since the days of first arcade machines, back in the ‘70s. Normally, it was expected that the game runs at exactly the same frame rate that the display uses. It wasn’t until the popularization of 3D games that we first started accepting lower frame rates.

That's actually a bit misleading. 80's home computers (and consoles) were slow, and they were connected to standard TVs, which obviously used interlaced displays. Games did (usually) run at the full frame rate (i.e, one screen update every two interlaced “fields”), but that was 30 fps in NTSC country, and 25 in PAL-land. 60 (or 50) fps games existed, but they were rare enough for it to be a selling point sometimes. I grew up on 25 fps. Maybe that's why I'm less obsessed with absolute framerate than most people seem to be these days. :) Stuttering drives me nuts, though.

Way back in the ‘90s, when “3D cards” (that was before we started calling them “GPUs”) started to replace software rendering, people used to play games in 20 fps and considered 35 fps speeds for serious competitive netplay. I’m not kidding.

This is usually the point where I mention that the original F1 Grand Prix ran at a fixed 8 fps on the Amiga. When people started upgrading their machines, they had to apply a third-party patch to unlock the framerate. I still never managed to get it much above 20, mind you. :S:

That said, in general the Amiga was as smooth as silk, at least in 2D. The PC architecture has always seemed to struggle with maintaining a consistent framerate without stuttering. And I'm sure Alen from Croteam is right about the reason. Those older machines' display hardware was much more closely integrated with the display. They were built for NTSC or PAL. Programmers, the programs they wrote, and the hardware that code ran on always knew exactly when the frame was being drawn. They wrote to the vblank, going to crazy lengths sometimes to ensure that the entire game loop ran between frames. Even those 30/25 fps games ran at a consistent 30/25 fps, without tearing or dropped frames.

I hope the fix is as simple as he seems to think.

Exactly this, back in the day we used to measure everything we coded for demos/games in the amount of raster time [External Link] they took. On the Amiga I remember that we used to switch on a bitplane before a function and switch if off again (or if it was a color in the bitplane, memory is a bit rusty) after to see the actual mount of pixels as a visual benchmark when doing performance measurements.

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: F.UltraWhich is why I included the fact that all agreements you have to sign with Valve in order to publish on Steam is public in my previous post.

What's the share Valve takes off the Steam price?

Paradox claims that it's 30% in their Annual Reports which match what others have said the cut is. Seams to be a magic number since that is what Google/Apple et al also seams to take in their stores.

If we've got full access to all agreements you have to sign with Valve in order to publish on Steam, shouldn't we have that information first-hand?

What I'm getting at: It seems we don't have that full access. And I wonder if they're under NDA, because it's not like a lot of game makers are telling us clearly what the share is.

Ok, yes I can agree with you on that. It's clearly covered by a NDA because you have to sign the NDA as part of signing up with the program (and you can see the whole NDA yourself if you click to become a publisher). However AFAIK see there is nothing else that you have to sign so you are not signing away any publish-on-opther-places rights or don't-set-another-price-elsewhere.

Speculating here, but my guess is that this the actual percentage is secret either due to big publishers like EA do not paying the full 30% or Valve simply wanting to keep it a trade secret (how well that now works since everybody is talking about it being 30%).

I've heard that GOG also takes 30% but could not find any information at all on gog.com, in fact there seams to be no public information at all on how publishing works on gog, but it might also be me that haven't looked hard enough.

Bottom line is yes you are correct in that not every single detail is public but at least every agreement that you have to sign is and that is what I find more important since it's only in agreements where you can be legally forced to do certain things.

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Quoting: EikeWhat I wondered lately...

Quoting: F.UltraWhich is why I included the fact that all agreements you have to sign with Valve in order to publish on Steam is public in my previous post.

What's the share Valve takes off the Steam price?

Paradox claims that it's 30% in their Annual Reports which match what others have said the cut is. Seams to be a magic number since that is what Google/Apple et al also seams to take in their stores.

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Quoting: mylkadoes anyone know how much it cost to make a linux version of this game?
im sure they wanna sell some copies, but how much can they make, when its now just 1€

or are they planning a 3rd title and use this as commercial

Probably more or less came included when they updated the game, i.e whoever made the update made the game cross platform as part of the update so there where no additional cost (or atleast it cannot be broken away from the cost of the update).

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Now this is impressive for such a small and open game engine! This FPS demo gave me flashbacks to Mass Effect 3 for some reason.

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Quoting: pete910

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: pete910

Quoting: ShmerlYep, it shows up in the OpenGL string now:

OpenGL renderer string: Radeon RX Vega (VEGA10, DRM 3.25.0, 4.17.0-trunk-amd64, LLVM 6.0.0)
OpenGL core profile version string: 4.5 (Core Profile) Mesa 18.2.0-devel (git-2854c0f795)
OpenGL core profile shading language version string: 4.50
OpenGL version string: 4.4 (Compatibility Profile) Mesa 18.2.0-devel (git-2854c0f795)
OpenGL shading language version string: 4.40

Killing compat profile could have made sense if Khronos would have done it. But they didn't, and now it's proliferated in Nvidia blob, so some clueless developers use it despite many warnings not to, and you get results like Dying Light. There is no option for Mesa but to implement it.

Does Dying Light work for you ?

You can already make Dying Light run on stable mesa if you set the Launch Options in Steam to "MESA_GL_VERSION_OVERRIDE=4.5 MESA_GLSL_VERSION_OVERRIDE=450 %command%" the great thing with the new patches is that such workarounds will no longer be necessary.

edit: however reading the mesa-dev post it seams that this perhaps does fix some stability for Dying Light that the override did not. In that case this change is even better :)

As mentioned numerous times, that fix does not work for arch users or even non *buntu based distros. :(

Yeah I know but that should indicate that the problem on Arch is something else. I do hope that this is where I'm totally wrong so that things will start to work for you Arch-guys as well.

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Quoting: pete910

Quoting: ShmerlYep, it shows up in the OpenGL string now:

OpenGL renderer string: Radeon RX Vega (VEGA10, DRM 3.25.0, 4.17.0-trunk-amd64, LLVM 6.0.0)
OpenGL core profile version string: 4.5 (Core Profile) Mesa 18.2.0-devel (git-2854c0f795)
OpenGL core profile shading language version string: 4.50
OpenGL version string: 4.4 (Compatibility Profile) Mesa 18.2.0-devel (git-2854c0f795)
OpenGL shading language version string: 4.40

Killing compat profile could have made sense if Khronos would have done it. But they didn't, and now it's proliferated in Nvidia blob, so some clueless developers use it despite many warnings not to, and you get results like Dying Light. There is no option for Mesa but to implement it.

Does Dying Light work for you ?

You can already make Dying Light run on stable mesa if you set the Launch Options in Steam to "MESA_GL_VERSION_OVERRIDE=4.5 MESA_GLSL_VERSION_OVERRIDE=450 %command%" the great thing with the new patches is that such workarounds will no longer be necessary.

edit: however reading the mesa-dev post it seams that this perhaps does fix some stability for Dying Light that the override did not. In that case this change is even better :)

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: F.UltraIn my book this ticks all the boxes needed for a conspiracy theory.

I disagree. It takes more for a conspiracy theory than speculation. You're missing boxes, boxes which wouldn't tick.
But I don't think we need to discuss this further.
Your arguments about the real question are good; my speculation was most probably wrong.

Ok I'll soon drop this :) but just wanted to point out that:

#1 A conspiracy is: "a secret agreement by people to commit something wrong or illegal. Depending on the circumstances, a conspiracy may be a crime, or a civil wrong."
#2 A conspiracy theory is: "an explanation of an event or situation that invokes an unwarranted conspiracy."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy [External Link]

Which is why I included the fact that all agreements you have to sign with Valve in order to publish on Steam is public in my previous post. I would say that both boxes are ticked ;)

However with this I did not intend to paint people in a bad light so I can stretch it to call everything posted before this very post as speculation and everything after as conspiracy theories (unless people bring up credible evidence of course).

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