This whole post is anti keyseller/pro game distributor. That's fine, it is an editorial and that's liam's position.

By the way, propaganda doesn't mean lies. It means biased or unbalanced view point to promote a particular agenda. It can be facts and still be propaganda, by omitting other important facts. I didn't bring up fake news, you did.

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As I said in my first post, it's an unverifiable black market transaction because of the media industry. G2A didn't make it that way, it was already like that. Buyer beware of you get a stolen one that gets disabled. That said I've never had a key go bad. By the way the requests gearbox made would give them exactly the tools they need to make 100% of the keys on g2a invalid.

You can't negotiate with content providers (lumping gaming companies in here even though it's less so for Indies), they have an unrealisitic view of how they should be compensated.

By the way, I don't consider myself a "pro-g2a guy". The vast majority of my games are direct steam/humble sales. I just want to answer the one sided propaganda.

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Quoting: Alm888Because they are not "selling" games. They are licensing them to end-users. That's why it is called End-User License Agreement and everyone "buying" a game should read that and not just clicking through the whole installation process. Thus, even sharing (or even allowing to play to a friend who just dropped at your house) is illegal. So re-selling is a big NO-NO! Steam (AFAIK) has the right to ban an account it Valve finds out you it was re-sold to someone other than original owner.

Yes, that's what I said, keys are licenses and are non transferable. That's the scam. The legal principles behind this are not cut and dry. When movies and games were sold on media such as tapes, then discs, the media conglomerates tried to sue rental companies out of existence claiming that it was "licensed" media. That argument failed in court, because of the principle of first sale (if it looks like a sale, quacks like a sale, it's a sale).

When the same issue came up for downloaded software, the media conglomerates were a lot more powerful and they got their version of licensing law passed. So now something that is in every way a sale of a product can have unconscionable restrictions placed on it - or can even be revoked without a refund. This makes no legal sense, and is clearly anti-consumer, but as long as media fanboys like you exist to shame those who see through the shinanigans, nothing is likely to change.

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All the anti g2a sentiment out there. That's fine, but realize that g2a can never "go legitimate" because they are by necessity dealing with a black market. The keys are by their very nature non transferable. The studios and distributors make them that way. There's no legitimate way to transfer the rights of a game you've bought/acquired.

You can use eBay, or g2a, but either way you are assuming the full risk of an illegal transaction. The fix for this isn't on g2a side, it's incumbent on the gaming industry to give consumers the right of transfer back. Guess what? They won't. They like not having to recognize the legal principle of first sale. They like selling the same game over and over to each player, with no secondary market.

I'm not saying g2a smells like roses, but they fulfill a need the monopolists have denied us. And when/if the keys are revoked because they are illegitimate that's exactly what should happen, and the buyer will be left holding the bag, so do some due diligence. For the record I've never had a key get revoked and I've bought quite a few, but I don't buy brand new releases where actual surplus keys are unlikely to exist.

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Quoting: KristianFrom the GOG.com terms of service:

[insert ... all your base are belong to us yada yada...]

Quoting: KristianSo for example when GOG gives out games for free or the like, you can't take those keys and sell them on G2A.

Thank you for pointing out what this scandal is really about. It has nothing to do with stolen credit cards or nefariously obtained keys, and everything to do with developers and distributors complaining that they haven't managed to completely squash the first sale doctrine and stop secondary markets for their products.

There is a legal aspect to this, where the various EULA forbid transfer of keys, and those may or may not be currently enforceable in any given district (probably are but it's not completely tested). Personally, I think more laws protecting consumers are bound to be written. Either way, the legal aspect of this is completely different than the ethical aspect of it.

I believe most people feel it is just and fair that they can resell a key which they have legally obtained and don't want. G2A facilitates that. The fact some distributors and devs are issuing keys with half assed protections means those keys might also be sold there.

EDIT:
Here is a great article to read to understand how small the hairs that are being split here are;
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregvoakes/2012/07/03/european-courts-rule-in-favor-of-consumers-reselling-downloaded-games [External Link]

Quoted from an EU ruling (not US):

Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy – tangible or intangible – and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy. Therefore, even if the licence agreement prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy.

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As a developer the technical aspect of linking a key to a sale then revoking it is fairly simple to solve. It'a so simple it's pretty much unfair to the consumer.

Edit: what I mean is from a consumer standpoint buying a 'License Key' you are already pretty much boned because it can be revoked at any time for any reason. You don't actually own anything. /Tangent

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Well if your position is you should be able to sell outside the US for cheaper and those sales should be allowed to be transferred to those in the US, then we have nothing further to discuss because I completely agree. Well, except I would disagree that it's "fraud" or dishonest.

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Quoting: natewardawgI know that I can sell copies at the standard rate in the US (regardless that a few people might have lost their job). This isn't about forcing an idea on people, it's Economics 101. If your game costs too much for most people in Russia, they will pirate it instead, so instead of getting $3 for your $10 game, you will get $0. I'll take the $3 :)

Then you have to region lock it so people can't trade it or use it if they travel/move. If not then don't complain when people are buying it for export. Economics 101 is also about scarcity which hardly describes modern computing.

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This seems like more of a technical problem than anything. Why wouldn't tinyBuild revoke specific keys for which the payment was charged back? Just do it, let the blame fall on g2a where it belongs. The fact of the matter is as much as I love the devs of these games, they are trying to operate without a secondary market. It sounds like the same complaints big media and gaming industry has against the rental and used gaming market, that somehow transferring ownership of something because you don't want it anymore is stealing billions each year. Sorry I don't buy it.

Also, defending region pricing is BS. A lot of us are poor here in America as well. I lost my job in April, maybe I should get preferential pricing? If you ask me whether I'd rather pirate a game or buy it from g2q, I would probably buy it form g2a. At least then there's an initial sale/issuance of some kind.

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