As I said, Java Edition will be around more or less indefinitely, because of modders. Minecraft has one of the biggest modding communities out there, rivaling even Bethesda games. MS knows better than to anger that crowd, and we can comfortably ride on their coattails.

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Quoting: slaapliedjeI know this very well. It's the lacking library and the requirement that the engine / game needs Vulkan support that makes SteamVR under Linux not as good as it should be.

I was asking if it worked under Wine to see if maybe I could play Elite Dangerous in Linux.

SteamVR itself requires a featureful Vulkan implementation because the compositor uses Vulkan internally, but there is not and never was any such requirement of the application; OpenGL applications have always been fully supported, and the OGL-based "hellovr" example has always fully worked. OpenGL initially was very non-peformant due to relying on a texture copy hack to get around driver limitations, but that has since been replaced (assuming you're running NV binary 384+ or Mesa git) with leveraging new OGL extensions tailor-made for Vulkan resource sharing, and the submit path for OGL applications is now every ounce as fast as it is for Vulkan.

SteamVR itself does not function under Wine, and getting it working would be one hell of an undertaking (direct access to USB devices, application-level direct control of a hardware video output, DXGI inter-process resource sharing, and I'm sure a large amount of D3D11 functionality that's extraordinarily difficult to implement, in many cases complicated further by lacking similar functionality in popular OpenGL hosts). I started WineOpenVR because I see that as largely a lost cause.

Elite Dangerous (on Windows at least) is a D3D11 application. At this point, getting it running in desktop mode is (aside from the benefit of being able to play at all) a preparation measure; in 90+% of cases, an app running fine in desktop mode via D3D11 will work equally well in VR mode "day 1" when WOVR gets D3D support. This should already be true of apps using OpenGL or Vulkan in VR mode, and if anyone finds any exceptions, I want to hear about it.

For the record, I don't intend to even touch gallium-nine. It lacks any equivalent to GL_EXT_memory_object or VK_KHR_external_memory, and I'm no driver developer. Implementing DXGI shared handles as a wrapper around the OGL extensions is daunting enough.

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Quoting: slaapliedjeThat is fantastic. So does SteamVR even run under Wine?

No need. We have an official, native version of SteamVR. Software library has been.... lacking. I'm doing what I can with my limited knowledge and skillset.

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The current state of Linux VR is actually pretty decent, if you have a GeForce or are willing to deal with unstable (git) Mesa drivers. The NV driver hangs are finally gone as of the 384 series. I've been having great results.

I actually still run into periodic issues on Windows, most commonly, sudden total loss of headset tracking. I suspect it may be a sync issue with my base stations.

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Quoting: slaapliedjeI may be a fat over 40s guy, but if you can get Elite: Dangerous working flawlessly in Wine and the Vive, you can do whatever you like to my body, as I will no longer need it (harvest organs or whatever.)

I was proud that I made 1.8 million credits today by accepting a mission that was way too far away to complete... ended up scrapping the mission (which was to deliver data and would have given me 680k). Instead I sold Cartography data for about 100 systems for 1.8 million...time to do that a few more times to upgrade my ship!

Well, it needs to run in Wine in desktop mode first, which it currently isn't. As a rule of thumb, I'm focusing on 1) VR-only games and 2) games already known to be fully working on desktop mode. If I get the majority of those working, that should iron out all the VR-specific hitches and getting games working becomes the same as the regular SOP.

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I've been spending entirely too much time in Windows... I just love VR too much. Gotta have my fix.

Went to see the new show in TheWaveVR tonight, also beat Thumper, spending time in Rez Infinite and can't get enough of Rec Room's Rise of Jumbotron. All of these are top priority when I finally get Direct3D working in WineOpenVR. Which will be like, 2019, at this rate. I never realized how little I know about graphics APIs until I stumbled down this rabbit hole. As long as I beat the Win7 sunset I'm happy.

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Quoting: tuubiI don't have any better ideas, I just don't think yours solves anything either. We don't have to support everything Windows does anyway. We just need a decent catalogue of games people actually want to play. Wine or emulators are just fine for playing the oldies.

Wine supporting everything is a pie-in-the-sky pipe dream and will remain so unless and until Windows development halts entirely. But, it can deliver on a catalog of appealing games and close that gap, giving Linux's advantages a fighting chance of mattering. Arguably, it already does, but it's only meaningful if we embrace and promote it instead of sweeping it under the rug like a shameful secret.

In any case, the way MS has been going from one bad decision to the next lately, they might just do the work for us and push gamers away at some point. The camel's back will only bend so far before it snaps. Let's just do our part and be ready to welcome the refugees. :)

I really can't see that benefiting us. At most, they might spark widespread piracy of LTSB; they know full well that one, they'll never stop the piracy train, and two, desecrating LTSB would effectively hand a number of VERY lucrative industries directly to Linux. In fact, angered enthusiasts opting to pirate LTSB is probably part of their plan.

Quoting: AresoBut gaming it's a niche on Windows and Linux all the same (and, I assume, on MacOS too). Users, who used to Minesweeper, now adopted poor copy of Mahjong. Casual gamers in the company still run games in browser.

Hah. Apple and Google wholesale consumed the casual market years ago. It's not even a consideration anymore.

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Quoting: tuubiWine is a wonderful piece of software, but not a real solution to this particular problem. It provides a means for developers to relatively quickly and painlessly publish ports of their Windows games, or for gamers on other platforms to play them. But that's all it is and will ever be IMHO. Intermediate porting layers and wrappers won't solve the bigger challenges. Gamers won't switch to a different platform just because it's available.

Linux needs to be the better option. For the consumer, having a thousandth the content available eclipses any advantage Linux could possibly achieve. You have a better idea for solving that problem?

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Quoting: appetrosyanAnd in all fairness, Carmack was right.

Linux is unsuitable for business. Maybe as a development environment, but not as a target. But if I were to push for games on Linux, I'd focus on such projects as Wine

I've been saying this for a while now.

Currently, native ports are merely a form of philanthropic advocacy coming directly from the developers -- we'll never see them come from a company that doesn't already believe in Linux. Even Feral, Aspyr et al would be better off financially if they refocused as consultants on engine rework and console-to-Windows ports, but they believe in a higher calling. This small minority can't give us much-needed momentum -- they barely keep us on the map.

We can't ignore Wine. We NEED Wine. I would've never started WineOpenVR if native ports alone would get us anywhere.

Linux adoption due to Wine maturing will lead to developers officially supporting it. Wine itself, being a huge complex wrapper, is a support liability, but initially is worth it because of this minority fanbase and the minimal development work required. Inevitably, there will come a breaking point where their Linux fanbase is large enough for a native port to be worth saving them the headaches. That's the endgame -- Wine popularity fostering native ports and an industry-wide strong preference for crossplatform middleware. That's how we win.

Quoting: Mountain ManThose of us who were already vested in Linux are thrilled with the improved game support we've seen over the past several years, but Valve has done an exceptionally poor job making the argument that anybody else should prefer Linux as a gaming platform.

Because it's a hopeless argument in the first place. They realized that the hard way, and have refocused their efforts on changing that. They haven't abandoned Linux -- their heavy investment in Mesa development and improving SteamVR on Linux is testament to that.

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Quoting: michaWhile I wouldn't mind if it were Tomb Raider, I think it goes against Feral's strategy. TR is in the humble monthly which quite some Linux (and Mac) gamers are subscribed to. So it would mean less sales for them. Assassin's Creed would make them more money I believe.

I'm gonna hold off on activating my key until Feral lets this one loose, for exactly that reason.

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