Quoting: slaapliedjeBut yeah, Arch is, I feel, not a distributions for beginners to use in the first place.

It totally is imho - but the more beginner you are, the more you have to be willing to learn and read the wiki. But if you ARE willing, Arch is a perfectly fine beginner distro. Especially with the amazing community - the "elitism" that is often criticized comes down to "we won't help you if you are unwilling to put in even the slightest effort" in my experience.

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Quoting: BlackBloodRumIdeally, we want Linux to be open and accepting for all, technical users or not. I'm not suggesting we "dumb it down" though.

Well, it's fine to "dumb it down" - for some users and the distros/DEs/whatever that target those.
And yeah - for those users, there should be as many saveguards and warnings as possible.

But at the same time, that means that the user should choose a distro that fits their needs - if you don't want to learn and read the wiki, Arch probably isn't for you.

As always, problems arise when the user doesn't know what they're doing - and that includes choosing the right distro :grin:

Quoting: BlackBloodRumMeanwhile, her new iPhone my aunt got her? She is always complaining about it!

Can personally totally understand - i've never understood why Apples UX is deemed "intuitive". ^^

But my experience is similar - the people that have the least issues when switching to linux are the ones that don't know shit about computers. I guess the fact that they do not try to apply their Windows-Knowledge/Routines to it is a big factor here.
At the same time, advanced computer/Windows-Users tend to have the hardest time if they approach it with the wrong expectations.

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Quoting: BlackBloodRumsince for the most part you can just follow the wiki,

You would be surprised for how many people even that poses an enormous obstacle if you take a look in the support channels xD

But yeah, you're bringing up a point that many raise against archinstall - even if manual installation is very easy indeed, it at least makes the new arch-user familiar with using the wiki (in theory).

Quoting: BlackBloodRumWindows is less user friendly than Linux, in my opinion

Couldn't agree more. My family-support-efforts dropped to near zero after i installed linux for my mother, aunt and so on...

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Quoting: BlackBloodRumBut then that's easier said than done when we're talking about people who may only be using Linux for the first time.

And that is exactly why i don't think its a good idea for beginner-friendly arch-derivatives to make AUR easily accessible.

Quoting: BlackBloodRumThe warnings just need to be amplified a bit when it comes to third-party minimally checked stuff (whether that's a flatpak, snap, aur, whatever).

Indeed - although that problem is pretty much the same as with the 'normal' windows madness of downloading and running random .exe files that most people have internalized so well...^^

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Quoting: BlackBloodRumAnybody using Arch, whether they are technically skilled or not, is a "real" Arch user.

That's why i put that in quotes. ;)
Like i said, i don't want to be elitist and i'm totally rooting for distros like Manjaro, EndeavourOS and the like - just not in case of the AUR.

Quoting: BlackBloodRumI know many Arch users who use Arch itself, who would not even look at the PKGBUILD before using it.

I know - that doesn't mean that that is a good thing or advisable.

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Quoting: slaapliedjeThe huge difference between AUR and snap? You can see exactly what the AUR PKGBUILDs are doing...

They're generally built to snag from the upstream repo that you can verify, it verifies the hash against the tarball release, and you can see in the PKGBUILD if anything is being injected into it after that fact...

Yeah, the issue is the combination of AUR-Helpers (or even integrating AUR into the graphical package manager...looking at you, manjaro...) and Arch-based distros targeting 'beginners'.

I don't want to sound elitist, but the concept of the AUR is fine in the context of Arch and its intended userbase. At least it's more likely that 'real' Arch users actually read and understand the PKGBUILD before installing/updating.
But of course now with more and more people just blindly installing AUR-Packages it's becoming more attractive to malware-scum and it's only a matter of time that we'll get some more malicious packages there i fear...

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Don't really care, as i won't accept that annoying ea app bullshit anyway.

But of course it's bad news in general when companies decide to include malware in their games - but 'we gamers' are to blame for accepting this bullshit, same as with microtransactions, lootboxes and so on...

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I haven't been hyped for a game release for long, long time - but i really look forward to this :D
But still i will wait for reviews and the like - as fantastic as Talos Principle was, Croteam wouldn't be the first great Dev to fall from grace...

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I must admit, i haven't used VR in quite a while...does it work with flatpak steam nowadays? And do you still need to set up your own scripts to power up/down the lighthouses?

I really hope seeing more activity in SteamVR means Linux will get treated more like a frist class citizen there, too :)

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I really hope they aren't really expecting anyone to buy this sorry excuse of an explanation?!

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