That is easy, the reason is the same - people who can win a swimming cup can't fix a leaking sink. Because. And patches are welcome I guess.

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wishful thinking...

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Before doing any sanctions you should understand Russia's economy.
1. All income goes from exports and most of that is not under sanctions and won't be any time soon.
2. People in Russia are mostly divide between elites (0.02%) which support the regime and are almost not affected by sanctions (because Europe and US are very corrupt also they prepared to hide their capitals, also they are protected by various general licenses), 15% middle class which opposes Putin which is now destroyed by sanctions with people either leaving Russia (the ones who can and have enough money to afford that) or joining regime supporters (because they can't afford to leave and afraid for their lives and lives of their families), 40% people depending on regime (the main Putin's audience), the regime pays their wages and demands their loyalty, they live in the same information bubble as Putin and will do whatever they are being told to do regardless of the situation; also they are very poor and have nothing to lose and don't use most of Western civilization gifts so basically are unaffected by sanctions (they have nothing to lose from sanctions, also their income source can't be sanctioned).
3. US media corporations in Russia were part of oppression machine helping the regime find the opponents and censoring free speach, even by their will and initiative, for some commercial reasons. That also added to reduction of opposition numbers.

Due to that economic sanctions will only affect people who were protesting already and paid with their freedom for that,
and people who support Ukraine. As whole Russia will not be affected in any way usable short term. As for long term effects they will start to show up in many months.

So the only way to actually stop the war is to make Ukraine win (almost impossible without direct confrontation) or stop Putin's army somehow (also impossible without direct confrontation). Or kill Zelensky and give Ukraine to Putin (that might give Putin an idea that he can demand much more than that from West), effectively sacrificing it for safety of European and US cowards shitting their pants now (effectively delaying next unavoidable invasion). All other ways lead to unavoidable huge numbers of deaths and unavoidable West loss. Also it will still not be possible to avoid direct confrontation regardless of the choice now or in near future.

So hint: don't try to address anybody sane in Russia sanctioning them, that will not work, because with sanctions added all people can do is either leave country or join the regime. They lost ability to do anything else.

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I think even allowing Russia to pay for Ukraine support would work better than just banning payment; make prices x2 and send all extra money to support Ukraine, that would be much much more effective.

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Quoting: Anza

Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: GuestClaiming 'we' force them to fight by giving them those weapons isn't even cynical anymore. What I'd call it I won't write, to make Moderator's life easier...

Did I said that?

If Europeans should feel guilty is that in the recent past you did the same that Russia is doing (not in Europe, granted) nor didn't move a finger when similar stuff was happening in other places of the world. The only reason why you care about Ukraine is not because you feel attached to the population, but because the conflict is at the doors of Europe. But of course (and before pro-Russia users get exited) this still doesn't justify the military actions in Ukraine, Georgia or any other country were you got involved in a "liberation" war.

So if any European country has been doing something bad by doing or not doing something, none of the countries in Europe shouldn't be sending guns? Or was it that guns should be sent only when the victory is guaranteed already?

So Russian army who thinks they're fighting Nazis should be let to invade Ukraine while international community still tries to find sanctions that actually have an effect? Army that's shooting at nuclear plants and bombing civilians?

Yeah, that is how modern Europe is - a bunch of cowards shitting their pants before the war they can't avoid. Look - they already given up, they already lost.

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Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: slapinI disagree, helping Ukraine stand now will save both Ukraine and Russia. Losing Ukraine will end up as long standing
problem for both Europe and world. Also China will benefit from everything.

It all depends on what you refer as "helping". Helping to evacuate is one thing, giving more guns and forcing people to fight a war they don't want to is another.

Ukraine needs weapons and support, not trash talk from cheap cowards.

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Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: johndoe

Quoting: slapinNobody is actually willing to hear the sad truth, the propaganda sounds more comfortable.

If this is the truth, then any russian is simply dump... and I don't think so.
Honstly I believe they fear to get arrested and vanish... another sign of a dictators power.

It's easy to think this way but unfortunately you don't have to be dumb to be fooled by propaganda, it works just as good on Einstein level geniuses as the local village idiot. And that is why it exists, had it only affected the dumb people then no one would have ever bothered with it since the value would be minimal.

As an example just go over to Phoronix right now, people who are normally sane and of average intelligence are now there spewing insane ideas of Putin liberating the Ukrainian population from Nazis and so forth.

People prefer their information bubble, also lots of people are true animals now and enjoy people suffering,
and I'd say about 50% people are like this now. I don't understand how people having kids going to school
can become as animalistic... but remembering 1945 Germans I guess it is the same phenomenon.
People just deny what they see or when they see and believe it happens they think Putin can't be wrong, so if
Putin eats people then this is right thing to do, so they have to praise it and follow the trend. And it will
be very hard to make them understand (and sanctions won't work because logic will be misunderstood). And if these
people left alone they will end up building nazi state next and danger will not go away.

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The only thing which would really work is helping Ukraine now, everything else is full of shit. Don't replace real action with activism, do something. Sanctions have delayed effect if at all, but Ukraine needs your help NOW.

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Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: johndoeNo, I think this is the right thing to do.
Stop everything (beside internet access) with russia as possible. All russian people should start to demonstrate against Putin and force him to resign.

I will just say: don't feed a hate for Russian people. Not everyone of them are guilty of what Putin is doing, and saying "do something" is easy to be say than to be done in the current Russian context.

IMO, the only valid strategy against Putin and anyone that supports their invasion is to keep adding macro economic sanctions. Giving weapons and sending fighters to the Ukrainian theater of war is probably a bad idea.

I disagree, helping Ukraine stand now will save both Ukraine and Russia. Losing Ukraine will end up as long standing
problem for both Europe and world. Also China will benefit from everything.

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Quoting: Salvatos

Quoting: slapinI understand people behind sanctions but things do not work this way here. People will just consolidate and finally China will benefit from everything. That is because everyone here is in special kind of information bubble in which Putin is right and nation hero. So to avoid same thing happenning again there should be something which makes people see what is really going on. Thinking people already protesting but that is in vain because they have zero support.

If most of the world stopping trade with Russia and providing support to Ukraine, companies pulling out of the country, Putin preventing Russians from leaving the country, etc. doesn’t make them realize that something is wrong with their country, I don’t know what will. All the sanctions play into that. We are pushing the Russian population on the brink so that they take things into their own hands, because a direct military intervention by other countries could trigger a nuclear war that would be way more catastrophic than anything Putin could do to Ukraine, if you look at the bigger picture.

Things are absolutely going to suck for the individual Russian, and we well know that they are not to blame for this, but this is something that they have to fix. We’re buying them time, but we can’t do much more. I certainly hope that the world will be there to help them rebuild their economy and democracy when the conflict has ended. They are victims too, though of a different kind.

People won't understand anything and will feel oppressed both by government and West and will join government, which will lead to same thing happening again in future. Shunning nations never worked and never provided any good result.

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