Latest Comments by Shmerl
The new GOG profile system is out, looks quite slick
23 Apr 2018 at 12:51 pm UTC
23 Apr 2018 at 12:51 pm UTC
It's quite useful that you can see forum activity feed for those who are in your friends list.
Campo Santo, developer of Firewatch has joined Valve
23 Apr 2018 at 2:43 am UTC
23 Apr 2018 at 2:43 am UTC
Lock-in is surely a problem, and Steam has it too. But DRM and lock-in aren't the same thing. Though they can be related in practice (such as DRM causing lock-in).
Campo Santo, developer of Firewatch has joined Valve
22 Apr 2018 at 9:16 pm UTC
22 Apr 2018 at 9:16 pm UTC
Quoting: tuubiI think the term DRM generally only applies to technical measures that restrict the use of a product. Licenses and legal restrictions are a related but separate subject.If TOS requires you to use Steam to install the game, and then you go ahead and install it without it, DMCA-1201 and similar anti-circumvention garbage would treat it as a violation, which indirectly indicates that something like Steam is DRM because of that TOS. DRM was always about a combination of "measures" with legal garbage attached to them.
Campo Santo, developer of Firewatch has joined Valve
22 Apr 2018 at 8:15 pm UTC Likes: 2
But overall yes, you don't have complete ownership. However focus on DRM-free doesn't imply that you need full one (i.e. like copy to others). DRM-free simply means that the owner should not prevent / restrict you from using it, if you legally paid for it. So it means ability to back it up, not depending on any service existing / not existing and so on.
22 Apr 2018 at 8:15 pm UTC Likes: 2
Quoting: Doc AngeloThis is how I see it: The games are neither owned by the user nor Steam/GOG. The developer/publisher is the only one actually owning the game in its entirety. If a developer/publisher releases a game without DRM, they are OK with you to back up this game and use it however you want for personal usage.It's complicated. Full ownership can only be attributed to the publisher / creator or whoever holds the rights on this work. They give you partial ownership of it. I.e. you can use it, but you can't for example start making copies of it for others. Your ownership can extend to something like first sale doctrine, though it's a moot topic for digital goods.
But overall yes, you don't have complete ownership. However focus on DRM-free doesn't imply that you need full one (i.e. like copy to others). DRM-free simply means that the owner should not prevent / restrict you from using it, if you legally paid for it. So it means ability to back it up, not depending on any service existing / not existing and so on.
Campo Santo, developer of Firewatch has joined Valve
22 Apr 2018 at 7:59 pm UTC Likes: 2
Also, they point out this:
22 Apr 2018 at 7:59 pm UTC Likes: 2
Quoting: Doc AngeloI understand this in this way: They grant us the license to download and use content. This license can be revoked. Do I understand this correctly?Yes, they can revoke your right, but I don't really see in their TOS a clear explanation if it applies retroactively to what you already paid for. GOG clarify the scenario of the store closing down for example (which would mean automatic end of user agreement with them):
It seems very unlikely, but if we have to stop providing access to GOG services and GOG content permanently (not because of any breach by you), we will try to give you at least sixty (60) days advance notice by posting a note on www.gog.com and sending an email to every registered users – during that time you should be able to download any GOG content you purchased.So they make clear, that you still will be permitted to use your purchases (backed up naturally).
Also, they point out this:
If you would like us to delete your account please contact our Support Team here. Termination will not affect already existing rights or obligations of us or you.I.e. you can close GOG account yourself, and still have the right to use your purchases.
Campo Santo, developer of Firewatch has joined Valve
22 Apr 2018 at 7:51 pm UTC
22 Apr 2018 at 7:51 pm UTC
Quoting: DuncWell, it isn't. It's required for initial download, not reinstallation. End of discussion.I trust their TOS more than your assumptions. So the discussion ends pretty much when you try to say it's OK to violate their TOS when using their games.
Campo Santo, developer of Firewatch has joined Valve
22 Apr 2018 at 7:12 pm UTC Likes: 3
1. Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of Content and Services onto your computer.
That precludes manual installation from the backup you referred to. I.e. doing it manually would be violation of their TOS.
2. This license ends upon termination of (a) this Agreement or (b) a Subscription that includes the license.
I.e. if your account is terminated or Steam closes down (both would mean end of the subscription naturally), you aren't allowed to install or use those games anymore.
All that fits into restriction on digital goods after purchase.
22 Apr 2018 at 7:12 pm UTC Likes: 3
Quoting: Doc AngeloBut you can make backup of the DRM free games on Steam. What would prevent you from doing it?http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ [External Link]
Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of Content and Services onto your computer. Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a non-exclusive license and right, to use the Content and Services for your personal, non-commercial use (except where commercial use is expressly allowed herein or in the applicable Subscription Terms).
This license ends upon termination of (a) this Agreement or (b) a Subscription that includes the license. The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services. To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.They quite clearly say a few key points here:
1. Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of Content and Services onto your computer.
That precludes manual installation from the backup you referred to. I.e. doing it manually would be violation of their TOS.
2. This license ends upon termination of (a) this Agreement or (b) a Subscription that includes the license.
I.e. if your account is terminated or Steam closes down (both would mean end of the subscription naturally), you aren't allowed to install or use those games anymore.
All that fits into restriction on digital goods after purchase.
Campo Santo, developer of Firewatch has joined Valve
22 Apr 2018 at 6:51 pm UTC Likes: 1
22 Apr 2018 at 6:51 pm UTC Likes: 1
DRM is defined very simply as something that limits the usage of your digital good after purchase. If Steam is required to install the game after purchase (i.e. inability to legally make a backup of your game that you can install without Steam), it is already DRM. I.e. it's not only playing that should not be restricted, it's installation from backup too.
DRM-free services explicitly provide downloadable packages for that. If they close down tomorrow, you can still use them to install games you paid for. Steam does not. And Steam explicitly requires you to use it to re-install what you bought. It would be a violation of their TOS to make manual backup and bypass their installation.
DRM-free services explicitly provide downloadable packages for that. If they close down tomorrow, you can still use them to install games you paid for. Steam does not. And Steam explicitly requires you to use it to re-install what you bought. It would be a violation of their TOS to make manual backup and bypass their installation.
Campo Santo, developer of Firewatch has joined Valve
22 Apr 2018 at 6:38 pm UTC Likes: 1
22 Apr 2018 at 6:38 pm UTC Likes: 1
It's just that some keep claiming that Steam isn't DRM. Arguments that explain how it is DRM were brought many times, so I'm not sure why this topic comes up every so often, but I guess some define DRM only in limited way, that's why they can think that Steam itself isn't one.
Campo Santo, developer of Firewatch has joined Valve
22 Apr 2018 at 2:51 pm UTC Likes: 6
22 Apr 2018 at 2:51 pm UTC Likes: 6
Goodbye DRM-free releases like Firewatch?
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