Quoting: Guest

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: GuestVR was basically DOA, and until we get proper peripherals for it instead of roomscale and motion controller trash, it will remain DOA.

VR is amazing. Seriously amazing. I don't know how you can say roomscale is trash. The controllers work well enough for a first iteration on the Vive (been waiting for Knuckles forever).

Unless you've tried some of the amazing things that VR can already do, you are talking out of your ass.

Cost is probably the only real prohibitive thing, and the cost is always going to go down.

Roomscale fills a very specific niche, a niche for gamers that are excited about (or even just ok with) needing to stand while playing their games. Personally I play games to relax and I prefer to do that from a sitting position. It is also a gimmick, and an expensive one at that because it requires a large amount of empty space and has all kinds of issues even if you have said space. It's just not appealing to anyone except for a small specific crowd of gamers...

Is it cool? Yes, an amazing experience? probably, but it's not practical.

You realize that room-scale games or rather games built just for room-scale are almost non-existent now? Most games can be played in a small space, enough to stretch your arms out around you, and these are much better than the 2016 launch games that relied on room-scale. But there are also a decent number of seated VR games with and without motion controls.

VR is ultimately a medium that includes everything. And I mean everything. This includes seated games, standing games, room-scale games, soon house-scale and world-scale games, non VR games played on virtual displays, TV, movies watched on virtual displays, 360 photos, 360 videos and movies, and of course your PC desktop. That is all existing media.

So once it becomes more refined, it will be for absolutely everyone, leaving no one person out. Input will be offered in many forms with upcoming advances like hand tracking without gloves for socialization and easy media viewing, eye-tracking for intelligent interfaces, and of course motion controls / gamepad will still be there, and in gaming will be the main choices until gloves replace motion controls.

As Gabe says: These things, they take time. We're still in the early 2000s of the smartphone industry before the iPhone launch.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: NezchanI wonder, on the other side of things, how much of a barrier there is to developing for VR from the indie/solo developer side of things?

As a side note, despite being The Future Of Gaming, I can't really see how a lot of game genres would see much benefit by going VR. Certainly first-person games, and the sort of physical stuff that the Wii used to do (and to some degree the Switch does now) translate well. But RTS games? TCGs? Story-based RPGs with a lot of text, like Pillars of Eternity? Roguelikes? Seems to me that you'd have go to a lot of trouble just to tease out some way to present those on a VR platform that's just not worth the effort. And I'd personally rather not leave stuff like that in the past to pursue that golden future of gaming.

For a solo dev, VR might be one of the best areas right now because you can get a lot of visibility compared to anywhere else in gaming.

There are RTS games in VR. They are quite fun, and in fact would be very suitable for single player RTS games because we don't need insanely fast mouse / keyboard controls for that. For multiplayer RTS, mouse / keyboard will probably remain the norm.

TCGs can actually be amazing in VR. First, you get to turn cards on a screen to physical cards in your hand, which is a plus, but then you can animate everything like a Yugioh duel with life sized monsters. It's also much much much more social, because now you can physically feel someone's presence. AR/VR will probably be the medium for TCGs to really thrive in.

Story based RPGs with a lot of text just need to skip the text and go to audio, or otherwise we wait until resolution increases and it won't be that different.

Pillars of Eternity would just be a case where the added scale and immersion of VR would be an improvement for those who want it. It would be really cool. I can tell you that playing Hellblade in top-down VR at mini scale was seriously stunning.

Roguelikes in what sense? Turn-based / text adventures? Obviously text is off the map, but turn-based could work, but would likely be preferred without. Any other form of roguelike can be adapted to VR well and these days the "other" kind is the more popular kind.

So yes, it's not going to fit some things. But it does in fact fit most genres. You also need to consider that VR is a simulation medium as well, which means with increased resolution you can replace any screen setup no matter how good or expensive it is, with an identical or even better version. Then you can play all these games like Shovel Knight inside of VR, maybe even make the room all retro and play on a NES or something. You can of course do this with friends in a way that won't be any different from sitting on a couch with your friends playing games.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: ScrollingSquirrelThere are zero issues that can't be solved aside from wearing something on your head

As far as I know, there is: The 3D focal point and the 2D focal point fall apart. (I can look up the optical terms and explanation if needed.)

What you're talking about is the focal plane disconnect. Our eyes in real life naturally focus based on what we're looking at. In VR it's fixed at 2 meters always. But this is actually close to being fixed, and there are many solutions proven to work through publically revealed prototypes like the Oculus Half Dome prototype. That headset shifts the focal plane by moving the display back and forth depending on what your eye is looking at using eye tracking.

In a few short years, this will be the norm and the vergence accommodation problem will be solved.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: poisond

Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: GuestVR was basically DOA, and until we get proper peripherals for it instead of roomscale and motion controller trash, it will remain DOA.

Absolutely.
A tech gadget for those with enough money. And space, maybe space is even more important for those games with actual motion controls.
Every time a new VR gadget comes out, the "big future" of VR is announced, and yet, it just doesn't spread. I don't know how many more attempts it will take until even the most diehard fans realize VR is not "the future".
There are just too many games that would never work with VR (or gain absolutely no benefit from it), so that there's just no good reason to reach that deep into one's pockets. Not even beginning to talk about all the other downsides (discomfort, clunkiness, etc.).
It will have its niche, and that niche might even grow a bit (certainly enough to house a few VR-exclusive devs), but that's about it.

Personally I think VR can work out, for most games even, we need a middle step, where both keyboard and mouse are fully replaced by some superior peripheral (maybe something like EEG+speech recognition) and then that needs to be further improved to also be the replacement and successor of the (currently shoddy) motion control gimmick.

Yeah, maybe, some day, but I honestly doubt it will happen within the foreseeable future.

Even eye tracking doesn't really do it, because with kb&m I can do multiple things quickly without even looking.
Speech wouldn't help, either, as speaking a command would take longer than doing a few clicks.

I really couldn't think of anything that would be able to reach or improve on the precision offered by mouse & keyboard - short of "reading" one's mind and translating that into input commands.
And that just sounds like extreme scifi to me. Though if that ever happens, count me in ;)

Did you ever try the Vive controllers?
They're pretty precise and you do have two of them so you can even dual-wield(pretty fun in Serious Sam and Skyrim VR). You can aim much faster than with a mouse - just point your controller at the target.
There's touch pads you can use for movement and turning.
And I don't even know what you'd want a keyboard for in a VR game.

It's extremely important that people know that VR can let all of your surroundings in with newer tech because this is one point people see as unfixable. People like TheSHEEEP haven't thought of any solution and make the assumption that therefore, it can never happen. Well it turns out it has been publically demonstrated and will become a core part of VR throughout the 2020s. Isolation is never going to be a problem unless you want it to be, which is how it should be - choice.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: bubexelVR and AR is the future of gaming.

To protect your privacy, external media requires approval to load.

Source: media0.giphy.com

View cookie preferences.
Accept & Show Accept All & Don't show this again   Direct Link

Quoting: bubexelI remember when appeared the flat monitors that people was saying that never was going to work for gaming... there is no one with CRT monitors nowdays.

You are comparing apples and oranges.
Flat monitors never had any real problems other than price and reaction time to begin with. They were just superior in each other aspect. And that both both price and reaction time would improve was clear from the beginning.
That was the time when tech still improved extremely fast - if you haven't noticed, that time is years gone.
Besides, both are just monitors, used in exactly the same way.
VR is not just the next version of monitors, it is something different.

But VR devices could get as cheap as they want, and as light as they want.
You'll still have to run around with a thing on your head vs having nothing extra on your head. And not being able to see anything around you vs. being able to see all your surroundings. Not everyone wants to get entirely lost in the screen, not by far.
There are just so many issues here that can never be solved and will always make normal monitors superior for everyday use.

Quoting: bubexelTechnology evolve and solve the problems, those high prices, resolution, weight, etc... will be solve with next years as in other kind of technology.

You're blindly believing in tech. As someone who actually works in tech, I think that is maximally foolish.
You can not solve problems that can not be solved in theory.
VR's main problems are not in the practical nature, but already the theory, no amount of tech improvement will make them go away.

Quoting: bubexelAbout motion sickness, seems no one remember the first FPS games that was making motion sickness like doom , etc... But nowdays nobody get motion sickness because your brain is used to it.

That is absolutely not how it works. Except for people who do get general motion sickness from FPS games, nobody ever got motion sick from these games.
This is the same kind of urban myth as delirium furiosum (some people believed you would get dumb from riding in a train in the early 19th century).

Quoting: bubexelBut the reality is that in 10 years all of you will be talking about with hmd you bought like now you do about wich video card you or monitor you get.

The funny thing is that 10 years ago (well, 8, Oculus Rift prototype was 2011 afair), people believed the same thing. And where are we now? Exactly.
Let's talk again in 10 years, see if you still think it will be the future in 10 years ;)

I can definitely see it gaining more traction if there will ever be blockbuster VR movies allowing you to actually look around during the movie. But even then I don't see every or even many movies featuring that.

VR is the next version of monitors. This is why people call VR the final computing platform because you can simulate infinite amounts of perfect monitor setups or have screens that you can never own in real life.

VR would also let you see your surroundings just fine when you have the headset scanning real life and having full AR capabilities later on would only make this more useful.

There are zero issues that can't be solved aside from wearing something on your head which won't even be an issue when it's just a pair of glasses as well as motion sickness which GVS may or may not fix, and even if it doesn't you won't get sick if your movement is your own, which it would be if you are just simulating screens.

You might work in tech but you don't work in VR so you have nothing to go off on what can be solved and what cannot.

And does it really matter what people said 8 years ago? People always make wild acusations about technology, but if we listen to everyone in the VR industry, we know that they never envisioned anything taking off until the 2020s.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: ScrollingSquirrelSpace isn't an issue. It never has been and never will be since you can always use VR seated.

Games like Unseen Diplomacy or Budget Cuts need some space. You can't play those seated.

Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: ScrollingSquirrelSpace isn't an issue. It never has been and never will be since you can always use VR seated.

Games like Unseen Diplomacy or Budget Cuts need some space. You can't play those seated.

Games like Unseen Diplomacy are extremely rare. Budget Cuts is still playable in a space no bigger than 4x4 feet which a lot of people will have room for. Maybe they might not have that room where their PC is but once standalones start to really get going, you'll just find the most convenient spot in your house.

But even if you aren't able to play some of these games, you can still experience plenty of what VR has to offer.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: NezchanEven aside from the cost, it's a simple fact that a lot of people physically can't use VR headsets even if they can afford the hardware and a current enough machine to use it with. There's the motion sickness thing of course, and the space issue already mentioned. Plus a hell of a lot of people wear glasses and from what I've been told from numerous sources they still don't have a good answer to that with current headsets.

I can't see any way VR won't always be a niche gadget.

Space isn't an issue. It never has been and never will be since you can always use VR seated. Motion sickness isn't as relevant as you think as it only affects certain design philosophies set by developers and many people are able to overcome issues if they do get them. It's not the perfect ideal solution, but it's still not going to affect long lasting success.

Several headsets have managed to solve vergence accommodation which means glasses are no longer needed. These aren't available for consumers yet but will be in a few years.

People expecting VR to always be a niche are in for a rude awakening. It's a surefire guarantee to be ubiquitous in our civilization let alone just for gaming.

View this comment - View article - View full comments