Ion Maiden, a new 3D Realms FPS has launched in Early Access with Linux support

Rebuilding an old game on a new engine takes a lot more effort than the other way around. You need great textures and great visual effects to begin with, because that's the first thing people see. But then there's the need for accuracy in terms of maps and gameplay, which are essential for remakes and "reloaded" stuff. If it doesn't have the proper identity, it's a failure. So a new game on any engine seems a lot easier by comparison.

But I don't see any of these games as cash grabs. From what I've seen on both games that we're talking about here, it's easy to see there was a lot of work involved and I appreciate that. I just mentioned DN3D:R here because it's Frederik Schreiber's gang involved in both projects. Gearbox deserves the mighty foot for killing DN3D:R.

Last edited by kneekoo on 3 Mar 2018 at 8:30 pm UTC

I am now an hour into the game, and holy hell, this is freakin fun and awesome. But some of the secrets are really hard to find ;)

Quoting: kneekooBut I don't see any of these games as cash grabs.

Granted. That was more of an aside to some of the general negative feelings expressed about Ion Maiden, rather than what you wrote in particular.

Quoting: kneekooRebuilding an old game on a new engine takes a lot more effort than the other way around. You need great textures and great visual effects to begin with, because that's the first thing people see. But then there's the need for accuracy in terms of maps and gameplay, which are essential for remakes and "reloaded" stuff. If it doesn't have the proper identity, it's a failure. So a new game on any engine seems a lot easier by comparison.

Sure, it does takes effort, but so does creating an entire new concept from the ground up, and Ion Maiden by virtue of trading on nostalgia had to jump many of the same hurdles in terms of presenting itself as authentic with the added burden of having to create something new. The art burden is certainly no less, and may even be even more difficult as the Ion Maiden developers insisted on using old fashioned techniques for creating the artwork.

I am reminded of how in the newer series of Red Dwarf where they have switched back to physical models rather than just using CGI they have really struggled to find people still capable of shooting physical models effectively, as so much of the industry has switched over to CGI entirely. There are hundreds of developers that could create a new Duke Nukem game on a modern Unreal Engine today, but only a handful that could still create a Build engine game effectively in 2018.

I am not sure if anybody wins in an argument over which is more difficult, but I highly doubt the creation of Ion Maiden is as easy in comparison to a modern remake as you have made out.

Here's why I think DN3D:R was considerably more work than creating a new game on an old engine:

1. The graphics and effects must be modern, but the players need to feel like it's the old stuff brought up in higher definition. While this is easier for static art, it becomes difficult with in-game characters, which have to resemble their old counterparts. For instance, I dislike almost all the 3D models (monsters) in the [Duke 3D High Resolution Pack](http://hrp.duke4.net/media.php). They just don't feel right to me. I might be a lot more picky than most people, but I'm sure there are others who would've liked better models.

2. DN3D:R didn't aim strictly at pumping up the graphics on the original game, but also bring something new to the table. With Duke Nukem Forever out of the picture for so long and high expectations from the gamers, it's a tough job already to make the game believable with completely revamped art. And then you have to please the masses with everything new you bring to the table, so they don't get upset for ruining their beloved game. Sure it was a fan-made remake, but some gamers can be quite brutal if they don't like what they get.

3. DN3D:R is also about movement - as a 3D shooter. That engine must've been carefully configured to reflect the way Duke moved in the Build environment. I suspect it's not easy to make Duke move exactly the same, but I think they tried to replicate the physics as much as possible, because that's part of the experience that the fans expect to feel right.

Now about Ion Mainden, I won't say it's easy to make - just easier than. It requires time, patience, talent, skill, just like other games. But the good thing is:

1. It's new, so there's no need to conform to hard expectations (textures, models, effects, movement) other than to make it fun.

2. With a retro engine, the textures and models don't need to be pixel-perfect and the gamers are also less demanding by comparing this game with a modern one.

Now what requires a lot of work and it's quite hard as well, is the creative part - designing levels, textures, sprites and a good difficulty balance. But again, the good thing is none of this has to be like any other game. And the number of developers and designers knowing Build doesn't matter considering 3D Realms has enough of them in the know. :D

I don't have first hand experience with any of their work, so it's a lot of speculation here. But it's still educated speculation. And I miss DN3D:R and I will Forever (pun intended) hold a grudge on Gearbox if they don't grow a pair and work together with 3D Realms on Duke Nukem 3D: Reloaded.

Still not sure what's going on there. I'll have to poke them again on Monday.

Interesting, I didn't expect [fresh news](https://www.dsogaming.com/articles/the-2001-unreal-engine-version-of-duke-nukem-forever-was-90-complete-had-rpg-and-horror-elements/) about the Duke Nukem For(n)ever issues. :P So maybe some time in the future we'll see a proper Duke Nukem 3D successor.

Ah, that info comes from last year actually. Was part of a conversation on Duke4's Discord server. Btw, the dev team for Ion Maiden all hangs out both there and the official 3DR Discord so feel free to post there as well.

Quoting: EndeavourAccuracyThey really couldn't finish the game first, and have to release into Early Access, huh?
No money left to add Steam Cloud support (or Achievements)?
I'm willing to bet Voidpoint just reused a (mildly tweaked) old 3D Realms engine.
Other than the nostalgia factor, nothing about this looks appealing.
Thanks for supporting Linux, I guess. Now, can we get more real games?

It's Eduke32 based. There's a Linux binary that runs in the GOG preview. https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/80wxiw/ion_maiden_a_new_3d_realms_fps_has_launched_in/dv89dcs/

The GOG version of the preview campaign of Ion maiden has been updated...
You must download the file ion_maiden_preview_campaign_update1.zip and install the game again.
The older saves will not longer work.. You will have to play it again.
New save games are stored in /home/your_username/.config/maiden

It includes some balance tweaks, bug fixes, and the first of some performance improvements we'll be rolling out.

Almost 3 weeks have passed since this news popped out. I wonder what's the lowest spec PC used to play Ion Maiden in a decent manner. And considering the developers keep shooting for performance improvements, I wonder if there's any structured way and place to go to report the findings of running Ion Maiden on gradually slower PCs.

Not that there should be a point in trying to run the game on an old Pentium II, but it would be seriously cool if you could do that, at lower resolution, with a Voodoo graphics accelerator or something pushed as far as the technology can offer for that period of hardware possibilities. Or maybe a Pentium III with 256MB of RAM? It's still insanely far below the 2GB of RAM minimum requirement, but it would be cool to know exactly what's the lowest hardware and software requirement possible, because many people still have some old PCs catching dust, and reviving them for a new retro game would add more greatness to the feeling.

Now with Build being so CPU-intensive and Ion Maiden having much larger sprites and other we're probably better off running Ion Maiden on a reasonably good Pentium 4 with a decent graphics card, but I still wonder why DirectX 11 is a requirement. For instance, both the GeForce 8600 GT and Radeon HD 4670 are DirectX 10 cards. But wouldn't DirectX 9 be enough? That goes way back to the Windows 98 era, up to Windows XP, and I bet there still are some old and crusty PCs that sit around doing nothing with Windows XP on them. :P Firing up those oldies with a modern game would be awesome.

So what kind of PCs have you people tried Ion Maiden on so far?

Oh, and the 64-bit requirement seems a bit funny for a game based on EDuke32. :D We do have 32-bit builds, so why not a 32-bit Ion Maiden? At least at some point in the future. Is 64-bit really required for a 256-color palette retro game?

Last edited by kneekoo on 18 Mar 2018 at 9:23 pm UTC

Quoting: kneekooIs 64-bit really required for a 256-color palette retro game?

Why would you want to mess with 32-bit binaries on 64-bit systems? No one is using 32-bit Linux anymore.

I mentioned our old computers, and most of them are 32-bit. I'm sure you can easily imagine an old P4 CPU like Willamette, Northwood and even the first batch of Prescott (not its later "E0" revision) having 2GB-4GB of RAM and a 256MB/512MB graphics card - because hard-core gamers had those back in the day. So going back to an old gaming rig with Ion Maiden would be sweet.

A few of my earlier questions were partially covered by the following interview, but it would still be great to know the game runs (and further evolves) on older hardware. :)
View video on youtube.com

Last edited by kneekoo on 18 Mar 2018 at 11:32 pm UTC

Quoting: kneekooI mentioned our old computers, and most of them are 32-bit.

I guess their goal was not to run the game on vintage computers, but to provide old look'n'feel for modern ones.

They are clearly not aiming for running the game on such old hardware, but some valuable feedback coming from people having it could help the game's optimizations. And the easiest way to enable this kind of testing is by having 32-bit builds. Who knows where it leads? :D

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: kneekooIs 64-bit really required for a 256-color palette retro game?

Why would you want to mess with 32-bit binaries on 64-bit systems? No one is using 32-bit Linux anymore.

I agree with kneekoo.
If it is a retro game with retro graphics using a retro game engine, it should work on retro machines with retro hardware and retro operative systems.

Quoting: Comandante ÑoñardoIf it is a retro game with retro graphics using a retro game engine, it should work on retro machines with retro hardware and retro operative systems.

Why?

Read my previous posts (page 12).

Quoting: kneekooRead my previous posts (page 12).

I did read the whole thread. Still don't see what they would gain, beyond some geek cred.

(By the way, the amount of pages depends on your settings. For me there are 3 pages.)

Oh well, if you read the whole thread you probably noticed my recent posts and why I think 32-builds could prove to be useful in more than one way.