Total War Saga: TROY is now a 12 month Epic Games Store exclusive

Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: Purple Library GuyThe real question is, is this kind of thing working for Epic, or are they just throwing money into a pit?
I'm not convinced it's working. Steam use keeps growing and the last figures I saw about Epic store sales (other than Fortnite) looked big until I compared them with the size of the market, at which point they looked tiny.
Anyone got any more recent stats?

No stats, but they are bleeding money. When they pay $10 out of their own (hehe) pocket during the Epic Mega Sale stuff, they lose money on every game sold.

That's a given. They're clearly operating on the principle, "It takes money to make money". So they're paying big dough to attempt to very literally buy market share. If all the paid-for exclusives can attract customers to the store to buy both those and other games, and that attracts more games to the store that they don't have to pay through the nose to get the exclusive, and the whole thing snowballs and they eat Steam's lunch, then they win (and eventually jack up the prices and make back all the dough and masses more). If they just sit there with a threadbare store and a few exclusives, with people nipping in to grab their loss leaders and then running back to Steam where they have community and achievements and modding and stuff, then they lose.

So the question is which of those things is going on. Are they building market share? Or are they just buying a bunch of one-offs that don't add up to momentum?


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 2 June 2020 at 7:22 pm UTC

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: TheSHEEEPEpic just has the better deals for developers.

My hope is that Valve will wake up from its slumber and starts giving developers better deals as well. A cut lower than the absurd 30% would be a very good start.

Concerning the game at hand, it does suck for Feral I imagine, but I was never interested in the "Saga" series to begin with. Too limited in scope.

I wish more devs would dual launch on Itch and Steam.

So do I...

Quoting: kuhpunktAnd how low should they go?

10-20% is fair, with a higher cut as developers can opt in to additional services (forum, matchmaking, etc.) with 20-30% being the cut for all services used.

The problem is that at the basic level (which is what most developers actually use), they really just host their game and offer the community service with it - but they don't really have any work with it that would justify the high share for developers.

Quoting: randylInteresting that you hope Valve changes its fee schedule for "developers" while not mentioning all the other stores that still charge 30% (with no sliding scale like Valve) and these "poor developers" happily sell their games on.... PlayStation, Xbox, Win10 Store, iOS App Store, Google Play Store, Nintendo. What's up with singling out Valve on this? Why do gamers buy into the propaganda that this is a Valve problem?

I don't give a flying fuck about what happens on consoles or mobile - the latter hardly even qualifies as gaming to me.
The others on PC should naturally follow suit and also lower their share. This will either happen, or developers will continue to go to Epic. Or, of course, Epic's strategy fails and things go back to what they were. Hard to tell for sure at this point, but the recent developments seem to point toward Epic succeeding.

Quoting: TobiSGDIf that is your wish than be prepared for the outcomes. Valve takes 30% (as most other stores) and then reinvest that money into developing their platform, but also help with developing games, for example by providing debugging tools, and even more so, they specifically help Linux gaming, for example by hiring developers working on graphics drivers. What do you think will be cut first if Valve cuts down their income?

You have no idea about the insane amounts of cash Valve makes. Would they reduce their cut to, say, 20%, they'd still be swimming in money.
Their service is good, but not 30% good. They are just getting away with it because, so far, everyone took those 30%. Not anymore, though, which is a good development for developers. More money for the people who actually make games.

Quoting: x_wingValve already do that. If the issue was the revenue, publisher only have to set their prices 20% higher (or around that value) on Steam compared to the same game in Epic. But nope, seems that if you want to publish on Epic you must go full epic for a year... which definitely points towards that Epic subsidies the publishers.

That's just an amalgamation of misinformation.
A) You can't just sell your game at 20% higher. Game price points are a very important and sensitive variable that you can't just alter like that if you want more money.
B) Nobody forces you to go Epic exclusive, there are lots of games on EGS that aren't exclusive to it and never were. It is moderated, though, similar to GOG. Something as high profile as a Total War game certainly would've been accepted on EGS without exclusivity. But that exclusivity is highly profitable for developers/publishers, after all, they still get to release on Steam. Just later - it's like a free second release hype.

Finally, guys, don't shoot the messenger.
From a developers perspective - and most devs don't care about Linux, that's the sad truth - the Epic deal is really damn good.

Quoting: scaine(p.s. I love that this article, despite all the comments, has precisely zero likes at the time of writing this comment!)

I "liked" it, but only because I like being informed on such matters. ;)

Quoting: amataiSega/Creative Assembly is a studio that help make steam what it is now by making mandatory for people wanting to play Total War to install and launch steam. Their community is part of the steam community because people were not allowed to play their games outside of steam. That is what Epic is buying with their very generous offer (Epic is buying copies of Total War Troy to everyone who claim it on August 13, that far more money that this game would have made in its whole life. Total War Saga are considered far inferior as the main games and the period did not interest much people).

Don't think people will leave steam for that game through. I will still try to wineclaim the game because I prefer money in CA's coffer than Tecent's.

The big difference here is Steam never had exclusivity deals. The reason many devs went Steam exclusive is because either they didn't want to implement alternatives to tools Valve provided them or because they deemed the other stores too small a market. Creating a walled garden and then claiming you do it to foster competition is clearly contradictory(and a lie).

Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: x_wingValve already do that. If the issue was the revenue, publisher only have to set their prices 20% higher (or around that value) on Steam compared to the same game in Epic. But nope, seems that if you want to publish on Epic you must go full epic for a year... which definitely points towards that Epic subsidies the publishers.

That's just an amalgamation of misinformation.
A) You can't just sell your game at 20% higher. Game price points are a very important and sensitive variable that you can't just alter like that if you want more money.

But they already do that. As you mentioned, many games are sold in both stores and their prices are different. Is the only excuse is that Steam revenue is not enough, you can sell at the price you fill "correct" in Epic and add the percent that Steam "steals" in the price of their store. Doing that you guarantee yourself that you reach 100% of your users in the market with the prices that are better for each platform.

Using you words a publisher can say: nobody force you to buy on Steam were it is more expensive, you can go a buy cheaper in EGS.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPB) Nobody forces you to go Epic exclusive, there are lots of games on EGS that aren't exclusive to it and never were. It is moderated, though, similar to GOG. Something as high profile as a Total War game certainly would've been accepted on EGS without exclusivity. But that exclusivity is highly profitable for developers/publishers, after all, they still get to release on Steam. Just later - it's like a free second release hype.

I recall very well of developers mentioning how Epic only wanted to make a deal for exclusivity (many indy devs said that). So, "nobody forces you" doesn't makes much sense when Epic behaves that way. Also: "Something as high profile as a Total War game certainly would've been accepted on EGS without exclusivity" doesn't make any sense with the phrase you started this point...

Quoting: TheSHEEEPFrom a developers perspective - and most devs don't care about Linux, that's the sad truth - the Epic deal is really damn good.

For whom? for users? I live in Argentina and I can tell you: Epic is far to be damn good even for Windows users. I fail to see where is better for users, which is what we are.


Last edited by x_wing on 2 June 2020 at 9:07 pm UTC

Quoting: TheSHEEEP10-20% is fair, with a higher cut as developers can opt in to additional services (forum, matchmaking, etc.) with 20-30% being the cut for all services used.

You're forgetting the biggest value. Steam presents the product to 100 million monthly active users. No other store comes close. Except for the Apple store and the Play store. And surprise, they use 30% as well.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPFrom a developers perspective - and most devs don't care about Linux, that's the sad truth - the Epic deal is really damn good.

It's clearly not a great deal unless Epic throws money at devs. Although for at least some it is that they prepay the devs for a number of sales in exchange for exclusivity. But after the period they all go back to Steam because that's still where the real money is made.

At the end of the day, Valve doesn't need to change anything because the majority of customers are still on Steam. When that changes, things will change.

Quoting: TheSHEEEP10-20% is fair, with a higher cut as developers can opt in to additional services (forum, matchmaking, etc.) with 20-30% being the cut for all services used.

I understand your point, but if you offer the community features as an option, you also alter user experience. Steam users want the whole package and that's why they use Steam. Struck in a game? Just open the overlay and browse through the community guides! Got a new game to play with your pad? You can browse through community configs and pick the most used and you're set.
Steam does make money, but they invest in features for their users. Epic makes money, and invests in, well, more money.

But hey, what can you expect from a company which cancelled Unreal Tournament 4 in favour of Fortnite?
They haven't been able to release a decent shooter since 2004, anyway.

But if Feral has the publishing rights for MAC and Linux, they can publish it anyway. Only the Windows version will be Epic Store exclusive.

They can keep it. I'm kinda bored of the Total War games being the only native ports from these companies the past few years.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPHard to tell for sure at this point, but the recent developments seem to point toward Epic succeeding.

Please note that this is something I'm genuinely looking for more information about, so I'm not being sarcastic when I ask, what developments would those be?