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After the issues that happened with Linus from Linus Tech Tips breaking Pop!_OS during the switch to Linux challenge, the APT package manager has been upgraded to prevent future issues happening.

We covered the problem in our previous article, where System76 were going to apply their own fix to prevent a dialogue appearing that allowed users to end up removing essential packages. At the same time, System76 were also talking with the APT team to get an official fix and one has now been created and released with APT 2.3.12.

The issue shouldn't have come up often, and was the result of the Steam package breaking, with APT in terminal mentioning lots of different things that could easily confuse users. To continue you needed to enter "Yes, do as I say!" to progress, which you should probably never do since the warning was there for a reason - essential packages being removed.


Picture Source: YouTube - oh dear.

Now, that option has been removed and APT will no longer have its solver attempt to remove essential or protected packages, so any dependency problem needs to be resolved manually. As a result your package won't install, remove or upgrade if there's conflicts but at least you have an actual working system. It can be overridden still but it won't tell you explicitly how to do so in the error messaging to prevent people just doing it anyway again.

Looks like Pop!_OS is already readying to bring in the changes. It's likely other distributions using APT will follow during their regular update patterns.

Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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robvv 18 Nov
I can almost hear minds whirring away, thinking, "Challenge Accepted!"
mirv 18 Nov
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Quoting: robvvI can almost hear minds whirring away, thinking, "Challenge Accepted!"

Considering the original issue from a youtuber was following commands found online, this change won't solve anything. People will just read something from an old stackoverflow thread, or ubuntu forums, or somesuch, and blindly follow that while ignoring the massive neon warning signs that it could break the system.
Liam Dawe 18 Nov
Quoting: mirv
Quoting: robvvI can almost hear minds whirring away, thinking, "Challenge Accepted!"

Considering the original issue from a youtuber was following commands found online, this change won't solve anything. People will just read something from an old stackoverflow thread, or ubuntu forums, or somesuch, and blindly follow that while ignoring the massive neon warning signs that it could break the system.
Well the point is that it's one step harder to break now. While yes, someone will go and find the new command to do it, APT won't tell you it and the actual command name speaks for itself...
AussieEevee 18 Nov
Way way way way over due IMO. It won't stop people, but it will hopefully slow them down
ObsidianBlk 18 Nov
Quoting: mirv
Quoting: robvvI can almost hear minds whirring away, thinking, "Challenge Accepted!"

Considering the original issue from a youtuber was following commands found online, this change won't solve anything. People will just read something from an old stackoverflow thread, or ubuntu forums, or somesuch, and blindly follow that while ignoring the massive neon warning signs that it could break the system.

I half agree with this. Those neon warning signs are there, but the user may be colorblind to exactly what those warnings implied. The other issue that Linus faced, as I understand the situation, was that Pop_OS! actually had a broken Steam package at the time. So, a combination of a brand new Linux user with little (if any) familiarity with the terminology of the OS and it's numerous package distribution systems combined with an admittedly broken package that ultimately caused the warning in the first place, how was the guy even supposed to think that the simple act of installing an application could trigger the removal of his XOrg system, even with an error (that is otherwise alien to him) sitting there?

On the flip side, Linus has been heavily in the tech industry for years. Granted, he's predominantly Windows focused, but he should be well versed enough in the quirks of computers in general to know that, unless you're familiar with a particular situation, you don't just blindly ignore warnings. I get that this whole challenge is them trying to work with Linux like an Average(tm) gamer, but Linus is not. He's got more IT qualifications than an average gamer and the fact he nuked his system kinda makes me feel like he almost intentionally played dumb in this particular situation. I don't actually think he did, but he definitely came off looking like a sloppy IT professional to me in that moment.
mylka 18 Nov
i wonder what popos devs are thinking right now. they could have had all the attention from LTT, but instead manjaro gets it now because of some bug

btw when do they release part 2 ?
ObsidianBlk 18 Nov
Something that might help all distributions of Linux might be a central site where users can post their Linux tutorials, organized by Distribution, Distro Version, Topic, and Date. This way, when a user comes to the site looking for a tutorial, they should always get the most recent and relevant information up front. The site could also put up a warning at the top of the site if the tutorial being viewed is for an older distribution version, or if it hasn't been updated in some specified amount of time (like "Warning, tutorial is over 6 months old and may be out of date"). The site could also implement a rating system for how successful users have been using the tutorial.

I'm just spitballing. Honestly, though, there definitely is an issue with so many disparate tutorials out there from as far back as a decade or more, and, unless you pay close attention to distro version or date information that may, or may not be in the tutorial (depending on the whims of the author) you can easily have a newbie find an Ubuntu tutorial from 5 or 10 years ago, not realize its age, and be completely lost.
slaapliedje 18 Nov
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Quoting: ObsidianBlk
Quoting: mirv
Quoting: robvvI can almost hear minds whirring away, thinking, "Challenge Accepted!"

Considering the original issue from a youtuber was following commands found online, this change won't solve anything. People will just read something from an old stackoverflow thread, or ubuntu forums, or somesuch, and blindly follow that while ignoring the massive neon warning signs that it could break the system.

I half agree with this. Those neon warning signs are there, but the user may be colorblind to exactly what those warnings implied. The other issue that Linus faced, as I understand the situation, was that Pop_OS! actually had a broken Steam package at the time. So, a combination of a brand new Linux user with little (if any) familiarity with the terminology of the OS and it's numerous package distribution systems combined with an admittedly broken package that ultimately caused the warning in the first place, how was the guy even supposed to think that the simple act of installing an application could trigger the removal of his XOrg system, even with an error (that is otherwise alien to him) sitting there?

On the flip side, Linus has been heavily in the tech industry for years. Granted, he's predominantly Windows focused, but he should be well versed enough in the quirks of computers in general to know that, unless you're familiar with a particular situation, you don't just blindly ignore warnings. I get that this whole challenge is them trying to work with Linux like an Average(tm) gamer, but Linus is not. He's got more IT qualifications than an average gamer and the fact he nuked his system kinda makes me feel like he almost intentionally played dumb in this particular situation. I don't actually think he did, but he definitely came off looking like a sloppy IT professional to me in that moment.
He literally tried a command on a page, it gave him a big ol' warning that essential packages were going to be removed. He typed in the 'Yes I know what I'm doing' even though he clearly did not, and nuked Xorg while it was running. Not sure how that is any fault of apt. But I do find it amusing that I saw the changelog for this change last night as I updated my laptop. Gave me a chuckle.

But on the other side of this; Linus has 14 million subscribers. And people are interested in how this pans out for him. If he can somehow stick with Linux longer than the month that the challenge is for, it could potentially get a nice new chunk of users wanting to switch to Linux for their gaming / desktop usage.
slaapliedje 18 Nov
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Quoting: ObsidianBlkSomething that might help all distributions of Linux might be a central site where users can post their Linux tutorials, organized by Distribution, Distro Version, Topic, and Date. This way, when a user comes to the site looking for a tutorial, they should always get the most recent and relevant information up front. The site could also put up a warning at the top of the site if the tutorial being viewed is for an older distribution version, or if it hasn't been updated in some specified amount of time (like "Warning, tutorial is over 6 months old and may be out of date"). The site could also implement a rating system for how successful users have been using the tutorial.

I'm just spitballing. Honestly, though, there definitely is an issue with so many disparate tutorials out there from as far back as a decade or more, and, unless you pay close attention to distro version or date information that may, or may not be in the tutorial (depending on the whims of the author) you can easily have a newbie find an Ubuntu tutorial from 5 or 10 years ago, not realize its age, and be completely lost.
I mean I think every distribution should have the level of Wiki that Arch has. If there is one thing they excel at over any other distributions (with the exception of maybe FreeBSD), is their documentation. It's very thorough, and all in one nice place.
tbh linus is an absolute noob when it comes to software. like he will do anyrhing some outdated online guide will say. he will jump a cliff if you simply tell him to do. and luke is way better at this imo.
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