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In May it will be five years since the Carmageddon: Reincarnation Kickstarter. Linux support was a stretch goal they reached and we still have nothing to show for it.

Stainless Games Ltd are one of the major developers who made me lose faith in, not only crowdfunding but, generally trusting developers on what they say at all.

Nearly five years ago on May 24 2012, the developers promised Linux support for Carmageddon: Reincarnation if they stretched their Kickstarter funding out of ordinary people like you and me from $400,000 to $600,000!

That may seem like a lot, but $200,000 extra to produce a Linux and Mac version is...yeah insanity. Even with those extra funds, it has nearly been five years and all we’ve had is either silence or idiotic remarks from one of their team on Twitter (who I had to block).

The last we heard from that particular person is noted here in an article from February 2016 where we were supposed to get “a very clear statement on that in the near future”. Yeah, that happened — not.

The problem here, for me, is that they later did a revamp of the title called Carmageddon: Max Damage. This was to fix some problems, boost sales again and port it to consoles.

Carmageddon: Max Damage also never made it to Linux.

Fun fact, they actually released a trailer where they just run over a ton of penguins, make from that what you will:
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Not saying this was trolling the entire Linux gaming community, but it sure felt like it after their previous trolling attempts directed at our official Twitter account.

And now, they have announced that they are doing yet another Carmageddon title.

So, I contacted them via email and Twitter and guess what — no response.

Some developers are great, other developers like Stainless Games Ltd don’t deserve a penny from you. Sadly, this is a common case with crowdfunding and Linux and there are plenty of other examples. I actually keep a Wiki Page for this very purpose.

It's sad, very sad. I didn't realize it had been so long until their Twitter post about a new game. I looked it up and was really quite shocked.

Companies like this taint the waters for other more legitimate developers. This causes a knock-on effect for others, as I know plenty of Linux gamers who have been burnt by not only this Kickstarter, but others too. I myself got burnt and stopped funding anything on Kickstarter for about two years due to situations like this. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Tags: Editorial
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Zaxth 19 Jan, 2017
This is why, when I consider pledging for a Kickstarter, I have to remind myself: The moment money changes hands and the receipient is under no contractual obligation, then you as a consumer, loose all power over them.

No projects on Kickstarter have to deliver to you what they promise, it's like a charity, you can't demand anything from them after giving them money.
When stuff like this happens though, I won't ever support the company, even if they come out with a Linux version.


Last edited by Zaxth on 19 January 2017 at 9:32 pm UTC
slaapliedje 19 Jan, 2017
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Yeah, this was a dick move on their part. I completely forgotten that I'd bought this game in early access because there was promise of a Linux port. After getting jaded on several other releases, I've gotten to the point where there are only few developers I trust (inXile being one, because Fargo is an awesome guy in general) and will otherwise no longer buy something unless it already has decent Linux support. Only exception right now is if it's VR, or it happens to be included in a humble bundle that has some Linux games I don't have.
finaldest 19 Jan, 2017
Shamefull behaviour.

Mocking the linux community by rubbing this in our face. I will never purchase anything from these clowns as they are now on my s**t list. This behaviour is the reason why I have never pledged to a kickstarter project.
rkfg 19 Jan, 2017
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It's important to name and shame devs like this one. Almost as important as to remind everyone not to preorder, and I'm not being sarcastic here. I'd also like to see an article about tips on what to look at when considering to support a dev on KS/IGG. Like, check their previous titles, the engine they use, ask them about the middleware and whether they consider to post updates about the Linux version progress, whether the game will be available for Linux at alpha/beta stage (if not, that's a valid point not to back them, been there seen that) and so on. Nowadays many advanced games on KS have a playable demo available, in that case if there's no Linux demo ask the dev for it. If they can't provide one it's probably safe to move on, either they're gonna scam you or support it as a third-class citizen if not worse. Just from the experience.

That would help many Linux gamers to back delivering developers and discard scammers like Stainless Games early on.

Would be interesting (I don't know if this is polite or acceptable to do, don't want any drama so just an idea) to track the devs by several categories on wiki (probably?):
— green zone: those who always deliver and care about Linux gamers (Arcen Games, InXile, Paradox, Frictional to name a few), back anything from them; if they promise Linux, they get it done;
— yellow (or gray) zone, not so famous devs, no previous record on Linux games, poor state of existing Linux versions or just plain unsupported ones with lots of bugs that are never fixed, unfriendly/hostile towards Linux gamers (Uber Ent. with Planetary Annihilation, Wildcard with ARK, Facepunch studios with Rust); whether to support is up to you but you're warned, they may become better or fail;
— red zone: outright scammers; promise and never deliver, sometimes not just the Linux version but any game at all, keep silence about Linux, no alphas/betas/anything tangible like it never existed in the first place (Stainless Games, Warhorse Studios although they refunded the Mac/Linux pledges in full so I'm not so sure to put them into this category); avoid at all costs and tell your friends and family.

Personally, I don't have a lot of scam experience. Almost every game from KS was released for Linux in some form I find satisfactory. However, I do have enough experience in poor Linux ports and bad support.
TheRiddick 19 Jan, 2017
Yeah I have this game, the max damage release was fine and it was free for me so thats ok. But they really had no excuse to not release an experimental Linux version of the game given they had Unity3D as the engine and from my understanding they had updated it to the newer version also, so Linux compatibility should have been a easier move for them.

There is NO WAY that it would cost 200k to make a Linux version of this game given the engine used! So yes I think the developer lied and has turned its back on Linux supporters, don't give them a cent more!


Last edited by TheRiddick on 19 January 2017 at 10:15 pm UTC
apocalyptech 19 Jan, 2017
Quoting: ZaxthNo projects on Kickstarter have to deliver to you what they promise, it's like a charity, you can't demand anything from them after giving them money.
That's... actually not the case. From the Kickstarter TOS at https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use :

QuoteIf a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

* they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
* they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
* they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
* they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
* they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.

The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.

Now, I'm not sure how often or successfully that kind of thing has been challenged in court, but you ARE entitled to refunds if a creator defaults on their obligations.
opera 19 Jan, 2017
I actually backed this one on kickstarter. Lessons learned. I don't support video game crowdfunding anymore.
fabertawe 19 Jan, 2017
Quoting: apocalyptech
Quoting: ZaxthNo projects on Kickstarter have to deliver to you what they promise, it's like a charity, you can't demand anything from them after giving them money.
That's... actually not the case. From the Kickstarter TOS at https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use :
[snip]
QuoteThe creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.

Now, I'm not sure how often or successfully that kind of thing has been challenged in court, but you ARE entitled to refunds if a creator defaults on their obligations.

I backed this one. I've reported them to Kickstarter and requested a refund and guess what... no reply regarding either. How can they get away with this?

Scammers like this spoil it for genuine developers as I've not backed anything since and never will again.
slaapliedje 19 Jan, 2017
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Quoting: rkfgSnip...

Would be interesting (I don't know if this is polite or acceptable to do, don't want any drama so just an idea) to track the devs by several categories on wiki (probably?):
— green zone: those who always deliver and care about Linux gamers (Arcen Games, InXile, Paradox, Frictional to name a few), back anything from them; if they promise Linux, they get it done;
— yellow (or gray) zone, not so famous devs, no previous record on Linux games, poor state of existing Linux versions or just plain unsupported ones with lots of bugs that are never fixed, unfriendly/hostile towards Linux gamers (Uber Ent. with Planetary Annihilation, Wildcard with ARK, Facepunch studios with Rust); whether to support is up to you but you're warned, they may become better or fail;
— red zone: outright scammers; promise and never deliver, sometimes not just the Linux version but any game at all, keep silence about Linux, no alphas/betas/anything tangible like it never existed in the first place (Stainless Games, Warhorse Studios although they refunded the Mac/Linux pledges in full so I'm not so sure to put them into this category); avoid at all costs and tell your friends and family.

Personally, I don't have a lot of scam experience. Almost every game from KS was released for Linux in some form I find satisfactory. However, I do have enough experience in poor Linux ports and bad support.

I like this idea! Though I wasn't aware that Uber Ent was hostile toward it, I have only played Planetary Annihilation a few times, and thought it got updated the same time Windows did. ARK I would completely agree with, that thing has been a broken mess for ages on Linux, and Rust... I do recall reading how much of a dick that dude is. But then again it sounded like he was hostile to all development, and more or less wanted to stop working on Rust for some minecraft clone.

I've been on the "Urban Empire for Linux" thread on the steam forums for a while, it seems Kalipso was on that Green Zone list as well, but they haven't announced any Linux version for Urban Empire, which is a shame.
Liam Dawe 19 Jan, 2017
What's the issue with Planetary Annihilation?
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