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- Steam Frame and Steam Machine will be another good boost for Flatpaks and desktop Linux overall too
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Im really surprised when Liam(the owner of this site) came saying that "Most people only cares their stuff to work" implying he was one of those "who takes what they can where they can", responding to someone who claimed Native is preferred over some compatibility layer like Wine.
The thing is how someone who think that way is actually using Linux? this is a straight fact, Windows works out of the box, something Linux doesnt, no matter the distro you are installing there is always something left out by devs that you have to solve on your own, maybe drivers, your video card, your monitor resolution or even the fact your computer doesnt resolve IPs on your network.
So why? Linux is the extra mile the other 90% of the market doesnt want to do, thats why they stay on Windows or Mac, even most of my customers (Im It) on Mac doesnt even know how to install a printer, because they just want things to work and that doesnt happen, they call me, lol.
I cant go telling people that my lovely Lubuntu installation worked flawlessly , I have to install a lot of stuff to make something simple as changing my IP because default software to manage connections is shit, also install Nautilus because the default file explorer is so damn awful. After one year of having this distro I still run into troubles related to the OS sometimes.
If I would be someone who only cares about "things to work" mindlessly I'll be using Windows, things works there 99.9% of the times, here on Linux is another story.
Why Liam likes Epic Store? dunno, everyone is free of installing whatever they want on their PCs. But this beats me, he should be the first to know that things on Linux doesnt work that easy, we always have to do something else than windows/mac users to make things to work. The fact he received 36 likes confused me, as Linux users do we really forgot how complicated can be things on the penguin OS?
I dont know where I am anymore, maybe I am the only one running into issues with my Linux installations...
What doesn't work OOTB in Linux? All you probably need after installing it is newer kernel and/or graphics driver versions. You can write a simple bash script which will that and other things for you. Can you automatize this on Windows?
Doesn't nm-connection-editor allow you to change IP? And what's wrong with PCManFM? It crashes often but is fast and has all features a FM needs. If you have problems with Lubuntu or LXDE or LXQt, switch to XFCE (Xubuntu) or Cinnamon (Mint). They have higher RAM consumption but look and behave similar.
A PC user should know any OS he is using, let it be Windows or Linux or whatever. But an unexperienced user would probably encounter more problems with Windows than with Linux, like viruses, Win10 kinks, etc.
View PC info
On Arch, I just add 'nvidia' to the list of packages I want to install on the new system when I'm installing it. e.g.
pacstrap /mnt base devtools plasma-desktop nvidiaand graphics drivers are present before I even first boot the system. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don't think you're giving Linux enough credit; there's lots of reasons to use it. Safer, open source, free, more customization, less driver hassle, community, etc. It's not just coders, especially now, especially not on this site.
And here's a good example: One of the reasons you appear to use Linux is that you find something validating in how challenging it can be to maintain. That's fine I suppose, though I'd try to say it in a way that doesn't sound so superior and martyr-like (I mean, it's just an OS, friend), but it's not why I use it, it's probably not why Liam is using it, and that's fine.
Take the elitism and leave it at the door please orochi_kyo.
Linux and Windows are different, Linux won't work out of the box like windows, you can make it behave more windows like but what's the point?
I am not sure about your point (but usually, using "community" version of famous distro does not make for the best experience)
We as Linux users, learned those above and more (for example to compile everything, run a windows program via wine, debug software ourselves even do some of us knows nothing about programming and still had to live with annoying bug, etc etc), in hardest and most painful way.
However since 2010's, thanks to Android and servers. More contributor such as from Big Tech, Silicon corps, Software corps, and more new and old devs; coming to contribute to anything Linux. Which is the reason why emotionally Linux "feels" becoming much easier than ever.
Speaking of me and me alone. I've to admit, I'm kinda spoiled with todays Linux emotionally becoming easier than like 5 years ago when I was started using Linux. I mean I really don't want to remember anymore how hard it was to run Linux back then.
So yeah, I'm kinda spoiled. And maybe some GoL users too... Probably?
p/s: I hope I can explained "the feels" better. But you know, my English vocabularity/grammar is kinda limited and have to rely on Google translate to translate some words with varies accuracy.
I have rarely needed to mess with that sort of thing on a fresh install of the more user-friendly distros. I've had nightmares trying to update graphics drivers in the past, but as far as working out of the box, I've had more issues with Windows XP not being able to connect to the Internet by default and struggling to find drivers for that without the ability to use my computer to get them.
I distinctly remember how every peripheral is accompanied by a CD to install Windows drivers before you can do anything with them. Last time I installed a printer for a Windows-using friend, her computer froze during the driver installation and had to be hard-rebooted. Meanwhile, most of the devices I plug into my Linux work immediately, be it a keyboard, a mouse, a tablet, a controller or a printer (the downside being that there just isn't a driver for one of my scanners). I also don't need to wait for the OS to "recognize" my USB sticks before loading them up.
There are absolutely hassles on Linux, including many that I wouldn't entrust the average user with, but many of them are related to customization that Windows doesn't even offer, like the choice of a file explorer in your example, and that the average user probably wouldn't even think to change regardless of how practical they find the defaults. I'm pretty sure I would get strange looks if I asked my friends whether they'd like to use a different Internet configuration manager.
I'm not willing to say that one is better than the other in this aspect because it depends on your hardware, distro and needs/preferences, but it's definitely not all automagical on Windows either.
Installations? As in, more than one? Maybe that's the issue. I went through a massive learning curve in 2005 when I tried many, many different distros. But over the years, I've hardly installed any. I haven't needed to - my distro is just that stable.
I settled on Ubuntu early because it had a great ethos, incredible community and the money of a billionaire investing in Canonical behind it. I was big contributor too, first to Ubuntu forums, then later to AskUbuntu. I tracked every release, installing clean every 6 months. I knew this distro inside and out, but still faced lots of (sometimes extremely frustrating) challenges. I get your pain.
But since 2012 (SEVEN years ago!) I've done two installs and two upgrades. First install in 2012 to get a fresh/clean version of Ubuntu 12.04 on my main rig to prepare for Steam. I upgraded that inside of 30 minutes two years later (Ubuntu 14.04), then again two years after that (16.04). Later that year, I did my second install when I got a new PC. I'm still running Ubuntu 16.04, because it's rock solid, familiar, and has all the cutting edge packages I need, via PPAs.
So my advice is, find one thing you love, and stick with it. Lubuntu? Great. Arch? Magic. But find one, and learn it until it's perfect for you.
Oh, as for "Windows just works out of the box"?? Jesus. I don't even know where to start with that. Maybe Windows 10 is better these days, but my last experience of getting Windows 7 installed was basically "nothing works out of the box". No USB drivers, no WIFI, not even ethernet. Motherboard drivers (?), sound drivers, graphics drivers. Urgh. And everything you downloaded came with some kind of crapware control panel. Just so painful.
Linux, by comparison, is a golden ray of sunshine. Your mileage obviously seems to vary.
I'm really surprised to read this, especially in 2019.
Installing all of these drivers on Windows, configure the whole system to do what I really want and not the Microsoft bullshits... it's kinda a pain in the ass! And since I switched completely to Linux, I don't want ever to do this anymore, oh god no. :sick:
About your problem with resolving IP, I never had this issue, my network works fine with any OS/device.
And about installing a new file explorer, that's fine you can do it or not but maybe Lubuntu is not the "right" distribution for you.
I'm curious, what distributions have you tested so far?
Somebody borderline trolls you with a "Windows is better than Linux" frustration rant, and you all go "Full Exposition" mode.
I ask for some experienced opinions and no one mentions a peep. Would it help if I said "Gamepads suck" to get your ire up?
Please see the "Seeking some opinions - Redo" and opine away.
Ced
P.S. Punch cards or Floppy disks: Which are better?
For storing data, the latter obviously, but this is very off topic here.
Only the second line was meant to be snide. I don't think the OP was trolling, but dang, hard to tell. He (she?) drops a "my distro is better than yours" turd and hasn't been back.
The P.S. was meant to be sarcasm, didn't think I needed a /sarc.
My apologies all around. I've edited the title of my other thread.
I did get a useful answer on another question in the Programmimg forum, so I do appreciate that.
Ced
View PC info
I did see your thread on gamepads, but your opening line was pretty much "I'm a programmer not a gamer" and to be honest, I didn't think to read past that, as I thought was it going to be a programming thread. Didn't realise you were looking for feedback on it.
Xbox360 pad suck btw. /s
:)
https://www.pcgamer.com/usb-drives-are-confusing-the-may-2019-update-for-windows-10/
The title of this thread doesn't even make sense.. The only way to get everything work out of the box on Linux based OS is when more people will use Linux based OS. Staying on Windows is the exact opposite of the solution.