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Trolls.... (Linux related ones)
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slaapliedje 29 Sep

WARNING: Possible foul language ahead...

Spoiler, click me
What purpose to these assholes serve? You have them of all variety too.
since this is a Linux page, I want to rant about the ones specifically around Steam where some people will simply ask if there can be a Linux version of a game, and you almost always get some dipshit that 1) isn't one of the developers, 2) knows absolutely nothing about Linux, 3) is literally just browsing around for Linux posts to do nothing more than to basically whine that we, as Linux users, would like Native gaming, or at least some semblance of something working under Proton to be able to play a new game, and that is just evil to ask that we take away the attention of a game for Windows!

What purpose does that serve? Do they just like being an asshole and like 'no, us Windows users have to suffer through it's shit, an you should too, no Linux version they need to fix bugs on the game for Windows!' without realizing a lot of times it's actually advantageous to have a multi-platform development as finding bugs is actually much easier that way!

The other one, and the one that irritated me today, are the 'It's not Linux, it's GNU!' Okay, I want to know who keeps going around and whining about this? 1) Linux kernel IS GPL2.. so technically is under a GNU license... 2) Has there actually been any long term projects to mix GNU with a different kernel? Only one I've seen so far is Debian, and neither the Debian GNU/Hurd nor GNU/kfreeBSD projects see much love these days. Since GNU doesn't have their own kernel that has as wide support as the Linux kernel, this type of troll can just shut the fuck up. There is no point in trying to split hairs here. This type of person should probably not install any commercial software at all, and even anything that has closed source firmware blobs (which is most wireless cards and all but the oldest GPUs. Yup, AMD even has certain blobs that the kernel wines about if they're not on the system).

I really want to know the psychology of these people. The 'just support Windows' one is very much like 'this is my sandbox, and you're asking me to share my toys!' mentality. The GNU ones are... I don't know, I just want to say 'write your own damn kernel that has wide support for hardware. Oh wait, that's the reason Haiku has been in alpha / beta for longer than I can remember??' Writing a kernel may be what some people do when they're bored, but drivers, especially for GPUs and such isn't exactly an easy thing to do! Otherwise I'm betting my Amiga with PCI slots would have all sorts of PCI based options, but they literally only have accelerated drivers for Voodoo 3+ and unaccelerated drivers for Radeon 9250s, and I think maybe some very beta S3 drivers. Pretty sure some of those are based upon Linux/XFree86 drivers.

Sorry for the rant....

The_Aquabat 29 Sep

yep somebody with level 0 in steam kept writing that I was "the typical stupid linux user" profile blocked only friends can write on it now. Just block them all . Also when I'm in social media if feel like I'm in a scene of the "A clockwork orange" movie where they are pulling out my eyelids and forcing me to see horrible stuff (and now with US election is getting worse)

Last edited by The_Aquabat on 29 September 2020 at 6:37 am UTC

slaapliedje 29 Sep

Oh god, yes. Politics have become such a shit show. As always I try to stay happily in the middle, but so many people I talk to go to either extreme, and it isn't even that they want to vite for someone because they think they will do a good job. But they vote for someone who isn't the guy/party they hate. I am just waiting for it all to come to a head at this point....

Shmerl 29 Sep

Some work as (unpaid?) Windows shills. Just ignore them, they don't deserve any attention.

The_Aquabat 29 Sep

I recommend watching this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc_Jq42Og7Q

Spoiler, click me

to sum it up the problem is algoritms, they are always trying to get a response from you and the problem is that negative responses are faster you can get angry or irritated really fast and instead feeling happy or calm is something that takes time to build up. Social media just sucks, in turn by this evil scheme and algoritms everyone is getting more depressed. Facebook, Google sociologist and psycologist know this very well it was proven even by them in multiple studies. Suicides among teens that use social media is higher it's a fact.

People that are trolls, are only puppets being manipulated by the algoritms, their brain releases endorphines when they get angry and it turn they feedback the system, which throws at them more algoritms to make them more angry and more irritated, they are being dog fed by algoritms in a loop system. Unfortunately the way the scheme works is that the more troll you are the more the system rewards you.

The guy giving that interview also made a movie on netflix I think is called the social dilemma, he worked on silicon valley.

I only use mastodon for now, at least the source code can be checked it's descentralized and if there is some evil algoritm it would be quickly removed.

I don't trust Google, Facebook, Microsot, Instagram, and social media that commercializes and harvests your private data, searches, etc. I trust more Steam or Amazon or even Netflix for example, their objective is different, they are selling tangible stuff, they will try to get you addicted to buying, which at this point is the lesser evil compared to what social media does.

/rant off

Last edited by The_Aquabat on 29 September 2020 at 7:19 am UTC

mirv 29 Sep

On the GNU point: I do know that some are a little more excessive in their application, but Linux (kernel) alone doesn't run games or form an OS. It's "just" the kernel, so there is some validity in recognising that. It was originally a whole bunch of GNU software that was missing the kernel - and while they (the GNU people) were working on that, Linux replaced the need.
Then everyone just kind of started calling the entire OS as Linux, which annoyed some people because the effort of all the GNU work was being entirely overlooked, hence the suggestion to start using GNU/Linux, GNU+Linux, or some other form.

I know most are probably aware of all that of course. I mostly write it as a reference to say that the GNU aspect is very important to some people, and it's respectful to recognise the GNU efforts as much as the efforts given to the kernel. I do this by saying GNU/Linux when I mean the OS. I don't, however, insist upon others using it. It's respect I give from myself, not that I demand others give.

Of course, there's so much more than GNU and Linux in any GNU/Linux based OS these days, and if I were to tack on names to recognise them all, I'll be here all day.

Liam Dawe 29 Sep

Yeah it annoys me to no end too. I've started emailing developers more than asking on Steam or Twitter, as too many people hijack my posts to start arguing about Windows or Proton, it's just not a good look. Frustrating when I tweet to a developer, have a chat and someone comes along and says "just use Proton!" - that's starting to really bug me.

dvd 29 Sep

Quoting: slaapliedjeWARNING: Possible foul language ahead...

Spoiler, click me
What purpose to these assholes serve? You have them of all variety too.
since this is a Linux page, I want to rant about the ones specifically around Steam where some people will simply ask if there can be a Linux version of a game, and you almost always get some dipshit that 1) isn't one of the developers, 2) knows absolutely nothing about Linux, 3) is literally just browsing around for Linux posts to do nothing more than to basically whine that we, as Linux users, would like Native gaming, or at least some semblance of something working under Proton to be able to play a new game, and that is just evil to ask that we take away the attention of a game for Windows!

What purpose does that serve? Do they just like being an asshole and like 'no, us Windows users have to suffer through it's shit, an you should too, no Linux version they need to fix bugs on the game for Windows!' without realizing a lot of times it's actually advantageous to have a multi-platform development as finding bugs is actually much easier that way!

The other one, and the one that irritated me today, are the 'It's not Linux, it's GNU!' Okay, I want to know who keeps going around and whining about this? 1) Linux kernel IS GPL2.. so technically is under a GNU license... 2) Has there actually been any long term projects to mix GNU with a different kernel? Only one I've seen so far is Debian, and neither the Debian GNU/Hurd nor GNU/kfreeBSD projects see much love these days. Since GNU doesn't have their own kernel that has as wide support as the Linux kernel, this type of troll can just shut the fuck up. There is no point in trying to split hairs here. This type of person should probably not install any commercial software at all, and even anything that has closed source firmware blobs (which is most wireless cards and all but the oldest GPUs. Yup, AMD even has certain blobs that the kernel wines about if they're not on the system).

I really want to know the psychology of these people. The 'just support Windows' one is very much like 'this is my sandbox, and you're asking me to share my toys!' mentality. The GNU ones are... I don't know, I just want to say 'write your own damn kernel that has wide support for hardware. Oh wait, that's the reason Haiku has been in alpha / beta for longer than I can remember??' Writing a kernel may be what some people do when they're bored, but drivers, especially for GPUs and such isn't exactly an easy thing to do! Otherwise I'm betting my Amiga with PCI slots would have all sorts of PCI based options, but they literally only have accelerated drivers for Voodoo 3+ and unaccelerated drivers for Radeon 9250s, and I think maybe some very beta S3 drivers. Pretty sure some of those are based upon Linux/XFree86 drivers.

Sorry for the rant....

What did you expect from steam forums? The volume of toxicity and trolling there is legendary.

I think many users also think that if a company develops a game for multiple platforms it will take a linear amount of developer time, and that's why a lot of games are really buggy on launch, so they get really frustrated when someone asks for a port for an OS that 'nobody uses'.

Kuduzkehpan 29 Sep

yeah one of them is my Cousin which usually tries to convince me to install windows for blabla windows only game to play with and then if i do he just basicly stops playing that game and bullying that game after 1-2 weeks of gameplay.

beyond these. i want to buy neuralink and plant that chip into thats trolls head then install minimal ubuntu version and have some fun.
i will pay for all the job for "Linux Users Sake."

dr_jekyll 29 Sep

Sadly Linux-phobia is really a big problem.
I even hear bad words about linux from people who should know better, like software engineers, free-time programmers etc.

But it's not limited to Linux, in general people tend to want only monopolies in every aspect of their life nowadays (Amazon, Facebook, Steam, Netflix, Uber, Airbnb etc.) and if you use an alternative then you "make things complicated" in their eyes.
They make things complicated by supporting wannabe-monopolies all the time and giving them power.

Last edited by dr_jekyll on 29 September 2020 at 2:21 pm UTC

slaapliedje 29 Sep

Quoting: dr_jekyllSadly Linux-phobia is really a big problem.
I even hear bad words about linux from people who should know better, like software engineers, free-time programmers etc.

But it's not limited to Linux, in general people tend to want only monopolies in every aspect of their life nowadays (Amazon, Facebook, Steam, Netflix, Uber, Airbnb etc.) and if you use an alternative then you "make things complicated" in their eyes.
They make things complicated by supporting wannabe-monopolies all the time and giving them power.
A good example of this. Someone I know keeps saying I'd like Apple devices, insists I should use Door Dash instead of Postmates for food delivery, etc.

I have always supported the underdog (just the way I am) and I for 100% sure hate lock in of any kind, so no, I would never like an Apple device. I didn't even like how much they try to push you into logging into their iCloud. Even Windows isn't so in your face about using One Drive!

Some companies are of the opinion that you and your data should belong to them, and you should be happy that they provide such a service to you!

The only one of the big companies I haven't had huge issues with is probably Amazon. And while they have had history of not paying their people well, or other things that make their employees unhappy, it isn't like they've been using sweat shops (at least that we know of), and they provide a great service in getting packages to my front door quickly. I think there is a great reason that Amazon is successful. Google is successful because of luck of the draw and advertisements, which I've never been comfortable with, as I hate advertisements... One of the reasons I'd never sign up and pay for something like YouTube Red or Hulu.

Hell, I still refuse to sign up separately to HBO Max, because I think HBO and Amazon should come to an agreement as having everything integrated through Amazon Prime is much better than having to pay X amount of different services.

But back to trolls, yeah I don't think any of them are paid. I actually watched a commentary video about another video... where the original video was a grown adult male that was upset (to the point where he seemed close to bursting out into tears) that the PC was getting ports of some of the games that were previously exclusive to the PS4 (like Horizon: Zero Dawn). Because SOMEHOW having games be available to more people is a terrible thing! Oh no! I mean it isn't like the PC even competes with the consoles, that's one thing I've never understood... The only way they even compete at all is for the developer's cash. Exclusives to me make absolutely NO sense from either a developer or consumer point of view, it is only advantageous for the maker of that particular platform. No one else benefits from it. Not even the publisher does, unless the platform maker gives them a giant dump of money, and that is only the initial profit. Granted, if a publisher has any doubt on the success of a game, selling it to be an exclusive for that initial bonus is a great idea. People from that platform will flock to it for a 'this is better than what you have' to other platform owners. They basically feed the 'war'.

Exclusives are a funny thing, and just means the game will eventually either be unplayable, or work on a PC via emulation anyhow. :P

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