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Title: YIKES! Nvidia GTX 970 memory problems! Recall incoming?
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EKRboi 24 Jan 2015
I read about this not too long ago but I figured if it was really an issue it would have exploded by morning. It seems to have just taken a bit longer than I expected to blow up in Nvidia's face.

Pretty much ALL GTX 970s are having an issue where the memory speed/bandwidth basically tanks when VRAM fills past 3.5gb, which it usually won't unless forced artificially.. I know I paid for a 4gb card and not a 3.5gb one. It is not an issue on the 980's so some are speculating that it could be due to the cut down 980 die used in the 970 which would make this a hardware problem that would not be solvable by any driver/firmware update. Which would mean a massive GTX 970 recall :dizzy:

ManuelG of Nvidia has acknowledged the problem and says they are looking into it.
[ManuelG Nvidia Post](https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/803518/geforce-900-series/gtx-970-3-5gb-vram-issue/post/4430032/#4430032)

Scary stuff, I myself wondered why FarCry4 wouldn't load up my VRAM past 3.5gb on my 970's playing @ 5760x1080 with much of the settings cranked to the max when I had seen screenshots of it using every bit of VRAM a 980 had.

I did some quick searching but came up empty handed, so does anyone know of a tool for Linux to test the VRAM in linux in a similar manner as the windows users have been testing (see screenshot below). I very much doubt the issue is OS dependent, but it certainly cannot hurt to find out.

The internet is not going to allow Nvidia to sweep this under the rug, and hope everyone forgets. I have not seen this news posted to any of the Linux sites I frequent so I thought I would make everyone here aware. If you are considering picking up a 970, I suggest either waiting for a response/fix from Nvidia or grabbing a 980 instead.

Some Links:
[Lazygamer](http://www.lazygamer.net/general-news/nvidias-gtx970-has-a-rather-serious-memory-allocation-bug/#oo)
[Reddit](http://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/2s2968/gtx970_memoryvram_allocation_bug/)
[Guru3d](http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=396064)
[Overclock.net](http://www.overclock.net/t/1535502/gtx-970s-can-only-use-3-5gb-of-4gb-vram-issue)
[Nvidia GeForce Forum Post](https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/803518/geforce-900-series/gtx-970-3-5gb-vram-issue/1/)

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Liam Dawe 24 Jan 2015
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That does sound bad indeed, but there must be driver updates they are planning to put in to try to fix it software-side first.
EKRboi 25 Jan 2015
Quoting: liamdaweThat does sound bad indeed, but there must be driver updates they are planning to put in to try to fix it software-side first.
I was hopeful that would be the case, but they went the better route (for them), and just deny and "explain" away the issue. It's suppose to be that way lol. Will be interesting to watch this for a few more days, it doesn't seem like many are buying Nvidia's response.

[Guru3D: Does the GeForce GTX 970 have a memory allocation bug ? (updated + NV answer)](http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/does-the-geforce-gtx-970-have-a-memory-allocation-bug.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+guru3d%2Fnews+%28Guru3d+Latest+News+%26+Articles%29)
Liam Dawe 25 Jan 2015
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Hmm yeah, but what game realisticly will want more than 3.5? Any?
EKRboi 26 Jan 2015
There are some VRAM hungry games out there and it is only going to get worse. When you start getting into multi GPU systems that have the horsepower to max out the settings in these new games VRAM usage is through the roof.. I'm already maxing out that 3.5gb in a few I've been playing. Mostly just disappointed in Nvidia as I do feel a bit cheated.
sub 26 Jan 2015
These are the specs for the GTX 970 according to Nvidia:

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-970/specifications

To me the problem is that Nvidia lied to their customers.
GoCorinthians 26 Jan 2015
Its that horrible app that cant allocate more than 3.5GB. Kombustor and AC U has shown more than 3.9GB allocated here!
sub 26 Jan 2015
Quoting: GoCorinthiansIts that horrible app that cant allocate more than 3.5GB. Kombustor and AC U has shown more than 3.9GB allocated here!
All of the memory can be allocated.
However, all memory above 3.5 GB has a MUCH slower memory bandwidth.
According to the reputable German news site heise.de*, the crossbar
configuration does not allow those last 512 MB to be accessed equally fast.
See the numbers in EKRboi's image for channel no. 25 to 29:

~22 GB/s instead of ~150 GB/s!

By design this cannot be fixed in a driver or firmware upgrade.
When more than 3.5 GB are allocated strange effects are to be expected,
e.g. noticeable micro jitter due to the partially slow access to the problematic
memory resources.

However, a driver limiting the card to 3.5 GB seems to be the best solution.

[*] http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Nvidia-fuehrt-Kaeufer-der-GeForce-GTX-970-hinters-Licht-Nur-3-5-statt-4-GByte-RAM-schnell-angebunden-2528588.html
EKRboi 26 Jan 2015
[Much better description from Nvidia on what is actually going on.](http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-Discloses-Full-Memory-Structure-and-Limitations-GTX-970)
[Article from WCCFtech (basically same as above)](http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-memory-allocation-issue-returns-56-rops-64/)
[Anandtech article ("simpler" explaination)](http://www.anandtech.com/show/8935/geforce-gtx-970-correcting-the-specs-exploring-memory-allocation)
So, they have now admitted that there was some miscommunication between Nvidia's engineers and the PR team. So what everyone thought they were buying is NOT what they got. That last bit of ram CAN be used but unless it is used perfectly (it normally isn't) then the memory speed of that last bit of ram is severely degraded. The big issue here is the "false advertisement" whether by accident or on purpose it doesn't matter. As a consumer I purchased a card with 4bg of VRAM that runs at 224 GB/s* with 64 ROPs and 2mb of L2 Cache and that is not what I received. I imagine Nvidia is going to be in some hot water in the UK with their consumer protection laws.. here in the US we have "corporate protection from the consumer laws" so who knows what is going to happen here.

*"To those wondering how peak bandwidth would remain at 224 GB/s despite the division of memory controllers on the GTX 970, Alben stated that it can reach that speed only when memory is being accessed in both pools." (lol.. so in other words.. not all the time)

what we were told:
GTX970
64 ROPS
2048kb L2 cache

what we actually got:
GTX970
56 ROPs
1792kb L2 cache
EKRboi 27 Jan 2015
Someone in a thread made a very valid point. In the 4 months the cards have been on the market not a single one of the people who engineered the chip and knew exactly how the architecture worked and the 970s cut down specs read even one of the bazillion reviews which listed the specs or any other place that lists the specs?

I find that extremely unlikely.. I would want to know what people thought of my labor of love if I were a designer/maker of these chips.. What I do think is likely is that someone noticed and Nvidia knew they screwed up and I'm guessing they just hoped nobody would ever put 2 and 2 together. After all, at the moment it is a small fraction of people running multiple GPU's and high resolutions who are actually running up against the memory issues. It could be a year or 2 before many games are running up against that VRAM limit on single card, single 1080p monitor setups.
n30p1r4t3 27 Jan 2015
If I were the owner of a 970 (980 here), I would get my money back. Games are only going to get more demanding. For example Shadow of Mordor and Titanfall require (and use) 4GBs of ram for the Ultra Textures. Just saying "Oh this doesn't bother me" is telling Nvidia it's okay to pull this crap (not saying they knew about it, just saying they should fix it rather than sweeping it under the rug).
Liam Dawe 27 Jan 2015
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I've put in a query at the shop that I got mind to find their stance on it.
EKRboi 27 Jan 2015
Exactly, I'm giving Nvidia the benefit of the doubt right now and am going to give them a week or so to come up with a solution I can agree on before razing a stink. Many are crying that Nvidia should trade their 970s for 980s and if that is what end up happening I won't complain.. but lets be honest, thats not very likely and I don't really think they should. I am well past my return window at this point so if nothing else I want my 3 cards refunded so that I can buy 2 980's like I now know I should have done from the start. I DO need that last .5gb of VRAM and I need it to function the same as the rest of it.

I have friends who can back up that I did in fact ponder 3 970s vs 2 980s for a couple of weeks before finally deciding that since the only difference in the cards were the cuda cores and for the same cost I could get 4992 cores with 3 970s vs 4096 cores in 2 980s I opted for more cores.
EKRboi 27 Jan 2015
Quoting: liamdaweI've put in a query at the shop that I got mind to find their stance on it.
cool, not that you won't, but keep us updated. I've read multiple reports of retailers issuing refunds for the cards already even when outside of normal return windows. I have a feeling that Nvidia is probably pressuring retailers to take them back because it will mean less people to deal with seeing as how many have their pitchforks out demanding free 980 upgrades.

I'm not seeing this ending in Nvidia's favor.
Liam Dawe 1 Feb 2015
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You can keep track here: http://forums.aria.co.uk/showthread.php/135872-Refund-on-970-due-to-misleading-advertising

I've also emailed their support.
pete910 3 Feb 2015
OCUK has been taking these back for over a week now.

[http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18651061](http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18651061)
Liam Dawe 3 Feb 2015
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Yeah, saw that just a minute ago, linked it to their email support team, tried posting it on Aria's forum and even the name OCUK is starred out.

I have tweeted my annoyance about this now too.
EKRboi 4 Feb 2015
Saw your tweet earlier about getting an extension on your return Liam. That is great. I too have not figured out what I want to do quite yet. Part of me feels obligated to return them simply because Nvidia seems to be getting out of this far too easy.

My Best Buy keeps ONE of these cards in stock and I have a feeling if I return 3 they will be returned to the distribution center which probably kinda looks bad on Nvidia's part. At the same time I KNOW it will turn into a huge hassle for me. I put them on my BB card @ 0% financing for 18months. So when I return them I'm going to have to wait for the credit to first hit my account (probably days) and then if I am lucky they will have 1 980 in stock and ill have to order the other and wait just like I had to wait on the other 2 970's after buying the one they had in the store. Not to mention 2 980's will cost me a little more than the 3 970s did. I've already sold my old 580's so I would have to put in my old backup 9800gt in for what would probably turn into a couple of weeks total... such a frustrating thing.

I've been an Nvidia fanboy for many many years.. if AMD/ATI on Linux was not a huge joke I would very much be thinking about getting a few r9 290x's right about now. I even did the smart thing and waited a few months after the 970/980 launch to hopefully miss the driver teething troubles and crap that comes with brand new hardware and I still got burnt... It has certainly left a bad taste in my mouth for Nvidia.
pete910 4 Feb 2015
Oh dear, Looks like a cash in to me though. If users are behind it fair enough, But...

[http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/lawyers_homing_in_on_nvidia_after_gtx_970_memory_allocation_claims.html](http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/lawyers_homing_in_on_nvidia_after_gtx_970_memory_allocation_claims.html)
Liam Dawe 4 Feb 2015
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I've decided to keep me, as realistically I only play at a 1920x1080 resolution, and it's going to be years on Linux before games use more than 3.5GB of the card, and considering the performance of the card normally, I think it's still a stomping card.

That said, when I do go to upgrade next time I won't be jumping into a new-gen so soon, but I will wait for reviews.
EKRboi 6 Feb 2015
I'm pretty positive I'm keeping my tri SLI 970s too. In all honesty the issues with the 970s have been greatly exaggerated. It is just the principle of the whole thing that bothers me. Nvidia is getting off too easy IMO. Had the real specs of the 970s been known when I made my decisions I most certainly would have opted for 2 980s instead simply because of how hard I'm pushing things. With the latest patch I'm even playing Dying Light @ 5760x1080 at mostly 60FPS even outdoors. The games I have played since building this beast of a rig include Crysis3, Metro Redux games, Tomb Raider 2013, Bioshock:Infinite, Batman: Arkham Origins etc... running 60fps with vsync no problems. Really the only game that stutters like a mad mad is FarCry 4 and that is just because it is the worst of the worst port and Ubish*t can't get their sh*t together.

It just sucks that I can run these AAA's on Linux @ 5760x1080 but they cant utilize my multiple GPUS.. I REALLLY want that to become a reality. It sucks finally having the games but still being forced to windows to utilize the rig I have built to play them.
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