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Excellent job guys, downloaded the new files and voila, works like a charm! ^_^

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Quoting: manus76Does it all impact linux gaming in any way? In other words: do you think there would be a lot people suddenly installing a linux distro on their computers if Apple changed its practices?
The biggest thing that happened in linux gaming is Steam, and even now, couple of years later with a relatively mature client and several thousands of games we don't see billions of people abandoning MacOS let alone Windows and moving to linux.

I don't think anyone really seriously suggested that would happen. For my part, all I was saying is that Apple is now a competitor to Linux, and so we don't benefit from their existence in the way we might have before, back when "well, you've done Mac, it's a tiny step to Linux" was a valid argument.

Quoting: manus76What makes people think that a couple of games more on 'our platform' would suddenly change that?

Less barrier to migration basically. If Windows gamers lost literally zero games by migrating to Linux, there would undoubtedly be a bigger slice of people willing to try it. It might not be a landslide, but I think we'd see much healthier growth.

As it is, there are too many reasons (okay, mainly one reason: 'muh games!') to stay on Windows.

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I might / or might not implemented something like this on TuxDB in the Wine section..:D

(Don't want to post any links to not anger the gods)

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Yep, I'm missing a Linux/SteamOS icon too in the Steam client, so not released for Linux yet?

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Quoting: mraggiOkay, I looked at the steam api thingy, and apparently I need a key to use the steam api. I'm thinking I probably shouldn't just hardcode my own key into the script, since that would be probably a breach of the terms.

I don't know about terms, but intuitively to me, the main problem with using your api key in the script is that it makes it public, and if someone uses it too much (or tries to hack steam with it), your key could get banned, or even your whole account (who knows with steam).

To keep it safe you need the scripts running "server side", but that means having a server. If you're interested in programming though, I would say that learning web technologies is never a wasted effort these days.

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Does it all impact linux gaming in any way? In other words: do you think there would be a lot people suddenly installing a linux distro on their computers if Apple changed its practices?
The biggest thing that happened in linux gaming is Steam, and even now, couple of years later with a relatively mature client and several thousands of games we don't see billions of people abandoning MacOS let alone Windows and moving to linux. What makes people think that a couple of games more on 'our platform' would suddenly change that?

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: EikeYou were using "social justice" as something negative, which is, sorry to say, plain stupid.
Social is good and important, justice is good and important.

To be fair, that term has come to refer to those who are bigoted while purporting to be anti-bigoted, but of course it often gets used by bigots to mud sling against anyone who is actually anti-bigotry which may or may not be the case here.

We should not let them get through with giving "social justice" a new, bad meaning. It's something inherently good, and if they are to point out bigotry or something else bad, they should call it like this. (Which in the course, as you pointed out, would make it much harder to apply the word to Gone Home).

Funnily enough, social justice is often blamed not by people who would suffer from more social justice, but by ordinary people who could actually benefit from what they are debasing.

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Quoting: manus76even if there was a direct link between Apple's practices and the state of linux gaming at the moment, I haven't seen anyone demonstrating such a link.

1. Lock-in taxes cross platform development making it more expensive.
2. In practice it means some simply won't do it, and will limit their releases to bigger platforms (not Linux).

MS, Apple, Sony and the like do a lot to perpetuate lock-in and tax developers who don't want to limit releases to their platforms. Example of that is them not supporting Vulkan on their locked systems.

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Yes, the world is sometimes an unpleasant place to live. There are bad and wrong things happening and there are multibillion dollar corporations operating on the capitalist market driven solely by (surprise) profit.
The thread is about linux gaming and not about Apple, even if there was a direct link between Apple's practices and the state of linux gaming at the moment, I haven't seen anyone demonstrating such a link.

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Quoting: manus76Why has this thread turned into 'Apple is an evil corporation' diatribe? I thought it was about Linux gaming and I can't recall seeing anyone putting a gun to people's heads, forcing them to buy an Apple product (or Microsoft's for that matter). At least not where I live.

Lots of bad things happen in this world without anyone putting a gun to anyone's head. People's children starve in the streets without anyone having put a gun to anyone's head. Nestle executives conspired to have third world babies die of disease without putting guns to anyone's head. The idea that if something happens subtly it didn't really happen is pernicious and helps a lot of people get away with a lot of really bad stuff.

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Quoting: manus76I can't recall seeing anyone putting a gun to people's heads, forcing them to buy an Apple product (or Microsoft's for that matter).

This doesn't reduce the damage lock-in proponents are causing to Linux.

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Why has this thread turned into 'Apple is an evil corporation' diatribe? I thought it was about Linux gaming and I can't recall seeing anyone putting a gun to people's heads, forcing them to buy an Apple product (or Microsoft's for that matter). At least not where I live.

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Another metric I would be interested in is calculating sales numbers vs total linux steam gamers, to know what percent of the market bought.

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Feral is porting Bioshock Remastered to MacOS, but not to Linux, which is a very bad sign ...

I wonder if they will port the game from the original console code or from the broken Windows port code.

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Yeah, they're after you. *yawn*

You were using "social justice" as something negative, which is, sorry to say, plain stupid.
Social is good and important, justice is good and important.

And no, "independent" doesn't make anything better (or worse).

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Oop, sorry guys. Almost stepped out of line with my independent opinion there...

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Quoting: tuxintuxedo

Quoting: no_information_hereHmm. Not so useful in my case (Neon/Ubuntu 16.04). For "lspci | grep VGA" I get:

01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation Device 1c82 (rev a1)

...which probably doesn't help for this survey. For glxinfo I get nothing. In the Nvidia control panel, it tells me the card model on the "XScreen 0" tab. Your instructions may be more revealing for people running Mesa?

(I knew my card, but wanted work it out from scratch like you suggested).

You might want to try the update-pciids command (maybe sudo is needed).

Yup, that did it. Thanks. I didn't know about that command.

Quoting: LeopardProbably you are using a laptop with switchable graphics? Intel Hd and Nvidia

If you didn't set Bumblebee or Nvidia Prime probably that's why you can't see your gpu

No, desktop NVidia card.

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Yes, please do add an ignore button. Better yet, give us a way to automatically block anyone who uses "SJW" as a slur.

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Okay, I looked at the steam api thingy, and apparently I need a key to use the steam api. I'm thinking I probably shouldn't just hardcode my own key into the script, since that would be probably a breach of the terms.

But then making you get your own key to use the script would make it probably even more annoying than downloading the page from your browser...

What do you guys think? I'm open to suggestions. It seems to me that the only solution would be to create my own website that does this for you and just gives you the results. Which would require me to learn html, css, javascript.

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I want to say, I am very thankful for the GOL Ark server, and I still do Patreon for that reason as well as principle, and I will still contribute to GOL because of that and more. That's not to say I will stop contributions if the ARK server goes down.

But I have some confessions.

I did go back to Win10 (still have my Linux Part for development things) precisely because I got a Vive, and I was not willing to sacrifice the VR experience because SOME developers who claim to be Linux compliant do not start the dev process with that in mind. Some do, and it is evident in their quality of product.

And because I was already in Win, I retried ARK on the GOL server. What a difference, my card actually performs.

The other confession I have is, today I got the Steam survey when I logged in, and was excited! Then realized I was on Win when it happened... I completed it. sorry.

I still have hopes for the nix gaming, but the performance isn't there. I realize by non-participation, I am making it worse for dev incentive in a small way....

damnit

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: etonbearsGood question! That's why I say it is unclear.

See update above. Looks like X.org foundation is working as a representative for Mesa in Khronos, so that should probably cover it.

OK, yes, assuming X.org sign ( or have already signed ) an adopter agreement, then it looks like they do have the protections of the IP framework.

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Quoting: etonbearsGood question! That's why I say it is unclear.

See update above. Looks like X.org foundation is working as a representative for Mesa in Khronos, so that should probably cover it.

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Quoting: JanIf that is true, allow me to ask you a question: Who is developing the official NVidia Web Driver for macOS to support their latest GPUs like the GTX 1080 if Apple prevents them to do so?

Apple does allow only those API it supports. Ergo no OpenGL support beyond 4.1

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: etonbearsNo. Khronos operate an IP framework, the essence of which is that Khronos members agree not to assert any patents they hold against other members implementing a Khronos specification.

So, Mesa project is not protected by that agreement? or X.org/Mesa are now a member?

Good question! That's why I say it is unclear.

I am not aware that X.org or Mesa have membership of Khronos, but individual open-source contributors may have day jobs in companies or universities that are Khronos members. I don't know if this gives any protection or not.

My feeling is that there is no intent to prevent open-source implementations; but that is not the same as giving legal permission.

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Quoting: etonbearsNo. Khronos operate an IP framework, the essence of which is that Khronos members agree not to assert any patents they hold against other members implementing a Khronos specification.

So, Mesa project is not protected by that agreement? or X.org/Mesa are now an "adopter" member and that would suffice?

See https://www.x.org/wiki/BoardOfDirectors/MeetingSummaries/2016/11-10/

UPDATE: Looks like it can help: https://www.khronos.org/files/adopters_agreement.pdf

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Quoting: ShmerlIf I understand correctly, Khronos only includes patent-free extensions in the versioned OpenGL specification.

No. Khronos operate an IP framework, the essence of which is that Khronos members agree not to assert any patents they hold against other members implementing a Khronos specification. I'm not sure how legally strong that provision is.

No mention is made concerning implementation of Khronos specifications by non-members, or what happens if non-members hold patents that might interfere with specifications - although one would assume Khronos then use alternatives where possible.

So the situation still seems a little unclear, although there is evident goodwill towards open implementations.

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Quoting: DrMcCoy

Quoting: EikeWould still appreciate an ignore button for some people.

I second that.

I will make that a priority after the admin centre upgrade I'm doing at the moment.

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A lot of this discussion has revolved around whether the amount and type of games now available on Linux is enough to drive adoption. And a lot of it seems rather simplistic to me. Everyone's talking as if there is one guy who buys all the computers and if you meet his conditions, all the sales could be Linux, but if you don't, we're stuck where we are. But that's not how the world is. There are people currently running Windows or Mac who play no games or just solitaire/minesweeper, there are people who play a few games casually but really only need a few to keep them happy, there are people who play games moderately, there are "hard core gamers". And there are a whole lot of other sorts of needs that have similar dimensions--photography, CAD, accounting, whatever.

For "hard core gamers", by most definitions, Linux is not a good platform right now. Workable, but unless you had some other overriding reason you'd pick something else, like Windows. Many of us here do have other overriding reasons, so we're here anyway, but it has to be faced: If you're the kind of person who really, really wants to have all the big name games, Linux is not your ideal platform.

But most computer users aren't hard core gamers. Most fall into one of the other categories. Now just a few years ago, Linux was pretty much only a satisfying platform for people who basically didn't game at all, who didn't even think they might want to game at all. This is a fairly restricted group, although already bigger than 2%. But now? Now, Linux is a satisfying platform for everyone up to and including moderate (or even, heavy but iconoclastic) gamers. This is a much less restricted group, certainly the majority of computer users.

Now, Linux overall as a desktop isn't going to be satisfactory for person X unless all their needs are met on Linux as well as on other platforms--or at least, unless any restrictions are minor and at least balanced by corresponding bonuses. Right now I would say Linux as a desktop in itself, or rather as a collection of desktop options, is on balance fundamentally better than any other desktop platform. It is as or more user friendly, more powerful, gives the user more control, less adware and spyware and viruses and on and on. There are still some restrictions in various areas, but it's mostly in applications and where once it was "You practically can't do this in Linux" now it's "If you are the niche equivalent of a 'hard core gamer' Linux may not be the best". Again, the number of people involved has shrunk way down. Any given person may have a few different kinds of needs; Linux is only going to be the best for someone if Linux applications meet their demands in all their areas of interest, so if there's 1% need better CAD than Linux has and 2% that want better video editing than Linux (or Windows) have and so on, it could add up to a fair number of people with one blocker or another. But the blockers are now pretty small; overall, the number of people for whom Linux is/would be as good as or better than other desktop operating systems is now quite large--certainly far more than 2%.

So it may not always have been true, but at this point the main restriction on Linux uptake is a matter of marketing, habit, existing corporate relationships and so forth. If you could wave a magic wand and suddenly all the boxen being sold had a user friendly Linux installed instead of Windows 10, hard core gamers would have problems and so would a few other people, but for many it would be an improvement. This was not always the case, and on gaming it has changed hugely in a very short time.

We need market share. Linux should and will continue to improve, but at this point there is no intrinsic reason why many more people couldn't use it than actually do.

(Edited to add: Note that for some niches, Linux is actually equal or superior even for "hard core gamer" equivalents)

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Quoting: EikeWould still appreciate an ignore button for some people.

I second that.

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Would still appreciate an ignore button for some people.

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