Alt tabbing in KDE is still not resolved, on some games my entire Desktop environment crashes if I try to alt tab during a game or try to resize or change resolutions. but I figured a way to fix this issue for every game, you will be able to alt tab and resize any game if you do this. first create a window rule on KDE settings for all windows negating the keep above/below rule that Proton defaults to.

Then via protontricks --gui select your game and run winecfg, on the graphics tab uncheck Allow the window manager to decorate the windows, this part has to be done for every game. do this and you wont have any problems alt tabbing/minimizing/resizing your games, don't know why Proton doesn't do this by default.

Winecfg [External Link]
KDE Settings [External Link]

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Quoting: Grifter

Quoting: KelvinhboAlmost every Linux native port that I have tried over the years have performed significantly worst than on Windows, only exceptions are Valve native ports and Feral's recent conversions.

About 90% of the Linux native ports I own have been abandoned for years, Examples: Both Borderlands, both Metros, Bioshock Infinite, Dying Light, etc... the list goes on and on, at this point you can get double the performance, on some cases even more when you force your native ports to run on Proton.

Even a game that wasn't abandoned until recently "Rocket League", performed absolutely horrible on the Linux native port, I could get around 120 fps on Linux, same settings on Windows gave me 250 fps, same settings on Linux with Proton D9VK gave me 250 fps.

Hello, if you go to one place and smell shit, it might be a shitty place. When you keep smelling shit everywhere you go, maybe it's not the places you go, maybe it's just you. I don't know what kind of setup you have, but I get 150-300 fps in the native rocket league client, using a very old core i5-750 and a 980 =)

I'm only smelling shit here and I'm trying to clean up the smell a little bit, but sometimes people enjoy the smell of their on nastiness and there is not much you can do about it, my setup is irrelevant because I have been able to reproduce it on different cards and CPU's but if you must know my main is a 9900k, GTX 1080 ti at 3440x1440,150-300 fps nice dude! because the game is capped at 250 fps max.

I'm sure I'm not changing any of your minds, Linux purist are far too gone, but if a Window user that is curious about Linux comes here to learn about games reads all this nonsense about "native" ports then tries it out, then see how bad the games runs compared to Windows, That's the best way to keep a 0.4 market share forever.

For AAA and AA games 99% of "Native" Linux ports are garbage, you can confirm this by going into Protondb and seeing the comments on "Native" games there, on almost every game you will find the same advise, "Force the game through Proton, Much better performance", Deus Ex: Makind Devided just became playable for me because of Proton 5 and that's one of the better ports from Feral.

https://www.protondb.com/app/337000 [External Link]

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: KelvinhboI'm pretty sure that is what Stadia is doing, you would have to be delusional to think they are recompiling Direct X games like Destiny 2 for Linux to be played on Stadia, I'm not talking about Vulkan games like Doom 2016, I made that pretty clear.

Instead of being "sure", do some research first. Otherwise it's a waste of time. You clearly have no clue about Stadia technology stack.

Yeah because anybody can just go into Google and get that kind of info, and the burden of proof is on your side, I'm not the one claiming outlandish ridiculous things like Google is re-writing Direct x games just for Stadia.

I'm still waiting for the evidence on that.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Kelvinhbo

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Kelvinhbo

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: KelvinhboProton is not just a "band-aid", it's revolutionary, and all I'm trying to say is that the resources and time that are being wasted on Linux native ports could be better used on making Proton better, compatible with all games and anti-cheat systems. At this time maintaining multiple ports of games is expensive, unnecessary and unreasonable.

They are already making native Linux port for Stadia, so this argument makes no sense.

I'm pretty sure they are just running the games over Vulkan and calling that a native game, or do you actually think they are re-writing the whole games and making Linux exclusive binaries?

That's the only time a Linux native game makes sense, when you write the game from the ground up to take advantage of the low level API's Linux offers. Only if the market share of Linux Desktop was high enough that would make sense.

Actually there's a good deal of Stadia development target information out there - and yes, they are native builds of games.
Much of game engines is already platform agnostic, but the real kicker is if you have to change the basic structure to accommodate a different rendering backend. Khronos has done a lot of work to make Vulkan very flexible, so that shouldn't be too painful.
Shaders have been a problem, but Google plugged the missing gap by investing in a HLSL to SPIR-V compiler.

Of course, Stadia is a single hardware target - and that will no doubt make QA and risk assessment easier.

Ok. So a game like Destiny 2 have been completely re-written for Linux and is not running over Vulkan for Stadia.
Would love to see some evidence on that if you don't mind.

Wait, I start to suspect you are confused about something. It runs through Vulkan, and it is native. Vulkan is cross platform.
If you mean runs through wine, no it does not.
I'll not search for you, not using this unwieldy device, but there are talks about developing for Stadia. Ubisoft have a very lengthy one. iD have another. Google itself has basic info about what is provided.

Is it so hard to believe? These games can run on Windows with multiple DirectX versions. They can run on pretty much all consoles. Why couldn't they do a GNU/Linux version if there was some incentive? Technical limitations haven't been the case for a while now.

I'll make it easy for you bud. Let's install the "native" Linux version of Rocket League on Linux, Do you think the code for this game was re-written from Directx9 to OpenGL? if you go into the games install folder /.local/share/Steam/steamapps/common/rocketleague/Binaries/Linux/
you will find that there is a Linux binary there and no reference to Wine or a .exe, but everybody and their dog knows that game is running over a translation layer to OpenGL.

I'm pretty sure that is what Stadia is doing, you would have to be delusional to think they are recompiling Direct X games like Destiny 2 for Linux to be played on Stadia, I'm not talking about Vulkan games like Doom 2016, I made that pretty clear.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Kelvinhbo

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: KelvinhboProton is not just a "band-aid", it's revolutionary, and all I'm trying to say is that the resources and time that are being wasted on Linux native ports could be better used on making Proton better, compatible with all games and anti-cheat systems. At this time maintaining multiple ports of games is expensive, unnecessary and unreasonable.

They are already making native Linux port for Stadia, so this argument makes no sense.

I'm pretty sure they are just running the games over Vulkan and calling that a native game, or do you actually think they are re-writing the whole games and making Linux exclusive binaries?

That's the only time a Linux native game makes sense, when you write the game from the ground up to take advantage of the low level API's Linux offers. Only if the market share of Linux Desktop was high enough that would make sense.

Actually there's a good deal of Stadia development target information out there - and yes, they are native builds of games.
Much of game engines is already platform agnostic, but the real kicker is if you have to change the basic structure to accommodate a different rendering backend. Khronos has done a lot of work to make Vulkan very flexible, so that shouldn't be too painful.
Shaders have been a problem, but Google plugged the missing gap by investing in a HLSL to SPIR-V compiler.

Of course, Stadia is a single hardware target - and that will no doubt make QA and risk assessment easier.

Ok. So a game like Destiny 2 have been completely re-written for Linux and is not running over Vulkan for Stadia.
Would love to see some evidence on that if you don't mind.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: KelvinhboProton is not just a "band-aid", it's revolutionary, and all I'm trying to say is that the resources and time that are being wasted on Linux native ports could be better used on making Proton better, compatible with all games and anti-cheat systems. At this time maintaining multiple ports of games is expensive, unnecessary and unreasonable.

They are already making native Linux port for Stadia, so this argument makes no sense.

I'm pretty sure they are just running the games over Vulkan and calling that a native game, or do you actually think they are re-writing the whole games and making Linux exclusive binaries?

That's the only time a Linux native game makes sense, when you write the game from the ground up to take advantage of the low level API's Linux offers. Only if the market share of Linux Desktop was high enough that would make sense.

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Quoting: Liam DaweI think it's important we remember there is no one size fits all approach. All have their ups and downs, both native and Proton. However, I absolutely think encouraging Linux support is the way to go, otherwise as others have said you're basically telling developers to continue only caring about Direct X and Windows only APIs. Even Rich G who used to work for Valve, said himself Proton is nothing more than a "band-aid" https://twitter.com/richgel999/status/1221569522618028032?s=19 [External Link]

That said, please try to respect the opinions of others, i do not want to see anyone telling another to "go back to x". If I see more of that warnings will be issued and posts will be removed as that's a level of toxic bullshit we will not have here.

I think it's the other way around, if developers just focus on Vulkan instead of Direct X we automatically get native ports for Windows and Linux. Doom 2016, Rage 2, Wolfenstein all run on Vulkan and all run exactly the same on Windows and Linux(Proton), Feral does make good ports, but they take a long time to release them, Metro Exodus have been out for a year, and it's now they are talking about a Linux port, there is no need for any of this, when developers just make sure games work well on Proton from the start.

Proton is not just a "band-aid", it's revolutionary, and all I'm trying to say is that the resources and time that are being wasted on Linux native ports could be better used on making Proton better, compatible with all games and anti-cheat systems. At this time maintaining multiple ports of games is expensive, unnecessary and unreasonable.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Kelvinhbo

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: KelvinhboI wish they would just make sure the game runs well with Proton instead of focusing resources on a native port that would surely be abandoned in a couple months.

If that's how you feel, why are you even using Linux? Go back to Windows. It's one thing to want an old game to work in Proton; one that will likely never see a native version. But you actively wish that a publisher who has announced a native port should abandon it and concentrate on the Windows port. Completely blows my mind, and again proves to me that a lot of 'Linux' gamers only care about their latest fix rather than advancing gaming on Linux.

Native ports, announcements of such, etc, should be praised, supported and encouraged. And in the long run, the use of Proton, while necessary now, should be discouraged. Particularly for new games. It definitely has its place for older games, though.

I have been using Linux since Red Hat 9 kernel 2.2 buddy, you are the one that should be going back to Windows if you are this delusional. Almost every Linux native port that I have tried over the years have performed significantly worst than on Windows, only exceptions are Valve native ports and Feral's recent conversions.

About 90% of the Linux native ports I own have been abandoned for years, Examples: Both Borderlands, both Metros, Bioshock Infinite, Dying Light, etc... the list goes on and on, at this point you can get double the performance, on some cases even more when you force your native ports to run on Proton.

Even a game that wasn't abandoned until recently "Rocket League", performed absolutely horrible on the Linux native port, I could get around 120 fps on Linux, same settings on Windows gave me 250 fps, same settings on Linux with Proton D9VK gave me 250 fps.

Maintaining different ports of games is expensive and time consuming for developers, with this magical little software called Proton all of these hassles are bypassed and everybody wins, with some tweaking I can get almost the same performance as on Windows with Proton, on a few games even better and more stable, maybe when the market share of Linux gamers is over 50% then we can start talking about native ports.

You don't know what you are talking about.... The ports are FINE, it is not like those games (Borderlands 2, earlier Metros etc) are being updated on Windows....

The most likely culprit for the performance difference is OpenGL poor performance vs Vulkan and Direct3D versions. Proton uses Vulkan so it can be far better optimized on MESA than the OpenGL ports, which face both poor OpenGL port performance + poor OpenGL driver performance....

Borderlands 2 recently got an HD texture pack update only for Windows, performance is fantastic on Windows so there would be no need for many updates, on Linux on the other hand the game is half-assed running at a fraction of the frame rate and never receiving any fixes, on Metro's native port you can't even change the resolution and half the graphics settings are missing. I could go on and on and on, but you people don't care about facts.
Damn! I guess they were right about the stupidity of the purist Linux community, no wonder Windows users are turned away when they encounter ya'll, I'm getting turned away myself from just interacting here and I've been using Linux for 20+ years, Admins please ban my account I'm done trying to reason with the unreasonable.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Kelvinhbo

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: KelvinhboI wish they would just make sure the game runs well with Proton instead of focusing resources on a native port that would surely be abandoned in a couple months.

If that's how you feel, why are you even using Linux? Go back to Windows. It's one thing to want an old game to work in Proton; one that will likely never see a native version. But you actively wish that a publisher who has announced a native port should abandon it and concentrate on the Windows port. Completely blows my mind, and again proves to me that a lot of 'Linux' gamers only care about their latest fix rather than advancing gaming on Linux.

Native ports, announcements of such, etc, should be praised, supported and encouraged. And in the long run, the use of Proton, while necessary now, should be discouraged. Particularly for new games. It definitely has its place for older games, though.

I have been using Linux since Red Hat 9 kernel 2.2 buddy, you are the one that should be going back to Windows if you are this delusional. Almost every Linux native port that I have tried over the years have performed significantly worst than on Windows, only exceptions are Valve native ports and Feral's recent conversions.

About 90% of the Linux native ports I own have been abandoned for years, Examples: Both Borderlands, both Metros, Bioshock Infinite, Dying Light, etc... the list goes on and on, at this point you can get double the performance, on some cases even more when you force your native ports to run on Proton.

Even a game that wasn't abandoned until recently "Rocket League", performed absolutely horrible on the Linux native port, I could get around 120 fps on Linux, same settings on Windows gave me 250 fps, same settings on Linux with Proton D9VK gave me 250 fps.

Maintaining different ports of games is expensive and time consuming for developers, with this magical little software called Proton all of these hassles are bypassed and everybody wins, with some tweaking I can get almost the same performance as on Windows with Proton, on a few games even better and more stable, maybe when the market share of Linux gamers is over 50% then we can start talking about native ports.

I think native, or natively supported, is the only way forward. Games break between wine versions all the time too.

Support is the key word. And if GNU/Linux wasn't _now_ feasible for gaming, on a technical level, Stadia wouldn't use it.

I respect your opinion even tho I think is dead wrong, that's right support is important witch is why developers should make sure games run well on Proton from the start, instead of making a Linux native port and abandon it a few months later.

By the way! isn't Stadia a complete train wreck right now? I think you should catch up with the news.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: KelvinhboI wish they would just make sure the game runs well with Proton instead of focusing resources on a native port that would surely be abandoned in a couple months.

If that's how you feel, why are you even using Linux? Go back to Windows. It's one thing to want an old game to work in Proton; one that will likely never see a native version. But you actively wish that a publisher who has announced a native port should abandon it and concentrate on the Windows port. Completely blows my mind, and again proves to me that a lot of 'Linux' gamers only care about their latest fix rather than advancing gaming on Linux.

Native ports, announcements of such, etc, should be praised, supported and encouraged. And in the long run, the use of Proton, while necessary now, should be discouraged. Particularly for new games. It definitely has its place for older games, though.

I have been using Linux since Red Hat 9 kernel 2.2 buddy, you are the one that should be going back to Windows if you are this delusional. Almost every Linux native port that I have tried over the years have performed significantly worst than on Windows, only exceptions are Valve native ports and Feral's recent conversions.

About 90% of the Linux native ports I own have been abandoned for years, Examples: Both Borderlands, both Metros, Bioshock Infinite, Dying Light, etc... the list goes on and on, at this point you can get double the performance, on some cases even more when you force your native ports to run on Proton.

Even a game that wasn't abandoned until recently "Rocket League", performed absolutely horrible on the Linux native port, I could get around 120 fps on Linux, same settings on Windows gave me 250 fps, same settings on Linux with Proton D9VK gave me 250 fps.

Maintaining different ports of games is expensive and time consuming for developers, with this magical little software called Proton all of these hassles are bypassed and everybody wins, with some tweaking I can get almost the same performance as on Windows with Proton, on a few games even better and more stable, maybe when the market share of Linux gamers is over 50% then we can start talking about native ports.

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