The effort is really welcome news to me. Official software branding for Gnome has been vague and confusing. If you go to the Gnome site it's really hard to tell what is officially supported and maintained and what are community editions for the desktop environment.

It's been a long time since I've used KDE. Is it easier to tell what is official software and part of the base DE?

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Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: Patola"...as they initially claimed it was "open source" but their license was tweaked in a way that made it not OSI-approved open source"

Can't agree to that. The term open-source was invented by OSI. There is no such thing as "Not Open Source Initiative-approved open source"..

You read far too much into my wording there. I wasn't claiming it was still open source. I've adjusted the wording to be even clearer on that.

Quoting: PatolaSo I will continue to call that type of licence "Open Farce".

I also find that entirely unhelpful, unproductive and just silly.

According to comments in this HN article (which I didn't vet because come on...): The source owner for defold inappropriately used the term 'open source' and later corrected it apologizing for the confusion in wording. It's really on them for initially causing the confusion. It was a mistake on their part and they apologized. Here is the HN article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23232648 [External Link] and this is the actual comment claiming responsibility for the mistake (calling it 'open source'): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23235217 [External Link]

In my opinion FOSS supporters don't realize how little 'the rest of the world' knows about software licensing, permissive open source, and FOSS/copy-left open source. The OSI has not done a great job educating and providing clarity. I'll venture to guess that many software developers and Linux users don't understand the difference and implications between 'open source' and FOSS/copy-left open source. My point is, let's be understanding and not condescending and judgemental about mistakes or misunderstandings. Most of us are still on a learning journey.

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Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: BlackBloodRum

Quoting: areamanplaysgame

Quoting: BlackBloodRumWoah guys, stop with all the hate. Seriously.

I dislike how the Linux community is slowly turning into a bunch of people whining... step back, take a deep breath and calm down.

Now, it's not great that this wasn't immediately ported, and let's face it many of you want to play the new update, want simultaneous updates with Windows and of course, to play online with windows friends.

It's perfectly acceptable to want these things, but here's the thing you have to remember:
Porting houses usually don't get access to the update code until after the windows team has finished their part, by this time usually the update is announced and has a deadline.

Sadly this often means if they run into problems making it work, or anything else which may slow it down, the deadline is easily missed, and the Windows version will always be ready first. That's why it's called a port..

So sit back, wait a little while and calm down.

Complaining and insulting the developers won't make the port happen any faster, in fact it may do the opposite, if you're a developer reading someone talking about you, and you read "These guys can eat shit" and "I'm definitely not buying this now!" will this make you want to keep porting for them?

Nope it'll make you angry and have a low opinion of the people you're doing the work for.

Remember, some of the porting houses have developers who read these comments...

The other platforms Aspyr is charged with porting this to, including Nintendo Switch, already received the update. Nintendo Switch doesn't have cross-platform multiplayer with Windows. Linux and Mac do, and they are now broken with no indication of when they will be fixed. In short, the game I've paid for is currently useless for the reason I bought it, and will be for the foreseeable future. Like I said, I don't even care about the new content. My goal was to continue playing the game that was working until they broke it. I don't care if they "want to keep porting for me" at this point, because they clearly don't value my business enough not to deliberately break the product I paid them for.

Edit: You're right, I shouldn't say they can "eat shit," and I apologize to anyone who was offended by that, including anyone from Aspyr who may be hanging out here. But the rest of what I said still stands. We are consumers just like everyone else, and we are not obligated to be grateful for whatever scraps we get because we're on a platform with lower market share. You know why? Because we are paying just as much as Windows users are paying. We are not being given a gift.

I understand your frustration here, and in some aspects you're absolutely correct, you've bought the game just like any other platform user.

But I believe your anger is misguided. They didn't break your game here, so far as I'm aware they didn't release an update, and that in turn has caused multiplayer to cease working between different game versions.

Now let's step back for a moment and see what's actually happened here.

2K are the primary developers of this game, they are the ones who've created the base game, DLC, and any required version/dlc checks for online play.

It seems to be 2K have released the Windows update (of which, Aspyr have no control over or say in) which has in turn caused multiplayer incompatibilities. No doubt, they were fully aware Aspyr were not ready. But they had announced a date, and had a deadline - and PR, managers etc etc said "Release it for Windows anyway, Linux and Mac users can wait".

It's true Aspyr didn't have the update ready in time, but they didn't do this on purpose, there could well be serious bugs that have caused them to not have the update ready in time, and naturally as I previously mentioned porters get the updates effectively last minute in development terms.

For all we know, 2K could have done a last minute bugfix update to the Windows version a few days prior to release, then sent it over to Aspyr who weren't able to ensure that bugfix works on Linux and Mac too, or it broke something on those platforms.

There are so many factors which can slow it down, it's really not funny. Sadly, Aspyr are not the primary developers, as such they have absolutely no say when a Windows update/DLC is dropped which can break compatibilities with other platforms.

Sad but true.

Unless we were find out exactly how and why this delay occurred, we can't really say it is fair to direct anger at them at this time.

And this is why it always hurts when we get developers who directly support us bought out by competition that will force them to drop said support (like inXile). I kind of always thought that Aspyr was a 'me too!' Porting house, as Feral has done far more for Linux with new tools and adopting Vulkan, etc than Aspyr has.
Guess we'll see how this progresses, but I can't imagine that Firaxis broke the multiplayer code so much that the Switch port would be so different than the Linux port.

I'm not sure if inXile will continue to support Linux in future titles or not but they continued to support us with Bard's Tale 4 even after they were purchased. The native version of BT4 runs really well as does the Windows version through Proton. Last year I did a review for BT4 and both the PR rep and inXile were very cooperative and friendly. They were interested in doing a Linux port properly, but they were also seemed interested in Valve's Proton tool and ProtonDB as well.

Where I have a problem with studios and publishers is when they drop support in the middle of a title with DLC and bug fixes. If they committed to a Linux port then it should be done well. If they don't want to port a title at all because it's not financially viable, I'm okay with that. Just don't bait and switch on me.

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Quoting: einherjar

Quoting: randylI love these events.

TBH to me they seem often to be absolutely useless. But if it is fun for people, why not.

Useful for what? It's a rather vague criticism. What aspect of gaming and the entertainment industry isn't useless. That idea to could extrapolated until we arrive at Nihilism. So, what expectation for usefulness from the did you have in the first place?

To clarify, I find these events fun because they prompt users to install games in their library that have seen little or no play time. An interesting aspect is the arbitrary categories they choose to group games in. Their AI that chooses the titles based on user interests as it applies to that category.

The other reason I like this event is because it's about playing what has already been purchased, not pushing people to spend more money in the store.

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Quoting: BlackBloodRumWoah guys, stop with all the hate. Seriously.

I dislike how the Linux community is slowly turning into a bunch of people whining... step back, take a deep breath and calm down.

Now, it's not great that this wasn't immediately ported, and let's face it many of you want to play the new update, want simultaneous updates with Windows and of course, to play online with windows friends.

It's perfectly acceptable to want these things, but here's the thing you have to remember:
Porting houses usually don't get access to the update code until after the windows team has finished their part, by this time usually the update is announced and has a deadline.

Sadly this often means if they run into problems making it work, or anything else which may slow it down, the deadline is easily missed, and the Windows version will always be ready first. That's why it's called a port..

So sit back, wait a little while and calm down.
it
Complaining and insulting the developers won't make the port happen any faster, in fact it may do the opposite, if you're a developer reading someone talking about you, and you read "These guys can eat shit" and "I'm definitely not buying this now!" will this make you want to keep porting for them?

Nope it'll make you angry and have a low opinion of the people you're doing the work for.

Remember, some of the porting houses have developers who read these comments...

While I agree hostile offensive remarks are inappropriate, my empathy and concerns stops shortly after that. They're a business, not my friends. If they can't answer the question, "What have you done for me lately?" with a satisfactory answer then our business relationship is on the line.

The fact is they haven't ported BL2 DLC yet either and they are beyond 'excusably late' on that. Aspyr have shown a growing indifference to the Linux community and have arguably acted in bad faith by not fulfilling their business obligations. And I am not a happy customer about that.

While it is unacceptable to verbally lash out, it is equally as toxic for others to gaslight and hand-wave the hostile and predatory practices the industry regularly engages in. Aspyr made a business contract with some users claiming to support their platform. Now that they have the money they are not acting in good faith by supporting that platform. They not only deserve a good measure of blowback, but they need to hear it or they will simply lose customers on any platform. If they are shitty business partners to me on Linux through Steam, then I won't be their business partner on my PlayStation or Switch either.

Right now, it's a gamers market. There are more games being made now than ever. There are more games than people can play. Studios and publishers need us more than we need them. So if Aspyr does see these posts and gets salty, then fine because there are 10 other studios in line right behind them with games to sell. I don't need Aspyr. They need "me" (the collective me). So, instead of gamers apologizing for being mad, Aspyr should come in here, kiss our asses, and promise to try and do a much better job. That is how business is supposed to work. They work for us and our money, not the other way around.

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Quoting: CatKiller

Aspyr Media, who ported it to Linux, still haven't even gotten Borderlands 2 and The Pre-Sequel updated on Linux since the last update almost a whole year ago.

I chose not to buy Civ 6 specifically because of that. They made it clear with that that they weren't interested in actually supporting their Linux releases. If Feral had ported it instead I'd have bought it.

This is one of the big reasons I haven't picked it up either, and the fact that it also doesn't really work in Proton either.

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Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: lqe5433Proton is too good. It's killing the Linux porting business.

In this case Proton doesn't work however..
Both DX11 and DX12 versions play the intro and then crash with a grey screen..

It's getting to the point where I want my games to have a native Linux client and work on Proton. Some native ports get neglected or lag. Sometimes Proton breaks. This is even a problem, to a lesser extent, on Windows with aging titles targeted at earlier Windows versions.

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I love these events. At least one of the games sticks and I keep it installed. If nothing else it helps remind me what's in my library. This time it's Ys: The Oath in Felghana and Tales of Zestiria. Tales is a lot more complex than I had anticipated.

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Quoting: GuestOh, well, i guess it is just me then :)

Here you go, another definition just pulled from a search result:

Quoting: DDGConforming to the current fashion; modish. synonym: fashionable.
Having style in aspect or quality; conformable or conforming to approved style or taste; strikingly elegant; fashionable; showy: as, stylish dress or manners; a stylish woman; a stylish house.
adj.
Having style or artistic quality; given to, or fond of, the display of style; highly fashionable; modish.

Style is defined as the way something is done, said, expressed, or performed. It implies an individual signature to that expression. Stylish is the adjective of style. In this context the art is said to be stylish because it has a distinctive appearance that differentiates it from other styles, even if just a little. So, if something is stylish it is presenting its own unique expression of that thing. A game could said to be stylish if its appearance is distinctive and different from a common generic look.

The Cambridge definition, in my opinion, is colored through heavy cultural bias that "style" is connected to and defined by the rich and upper class.

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Quoting: furaxhornyx

Quoting: randylNow this is the perspective I don't get, at all. Why would opening the source of any Windows version make it more attractive to use?

Windows being proprietary closed-source OS is often mentioned as an argument in favor of using FOSS, so I guess it "could" make it more attractive, especially if you can see (and "fix") potential spywares.

Quoting: randylEverything that is horrible about using Windows (drive letters, registry, abysmal userland design, etc) would still be present including the horrible UI/UX design, which can easily be replicated in other desktop environments.

This is something I do not understand when Linux users speak about Windows. And, I would like to point out that, while I am quoting your post, I have nothing against you in particular, it is just some trend I observe quite often in some Linux "die-hard fans".

But, how is Windows drive letters system bad ? It help keeping things tidy (when I install a game, I want to install it on my SSD drive, but when I am downloading, say, a Linux iso, I want to have it on my big capacity hard drive). On Linux, I struggle trying to get games installed on the right physical disks.

About the registry (that I never have had to use in years of using Windows, it is only required for very specific tweaks), how is that worse than tinkering with conf files scattered everywhere ?

It seems to me that people aren't being fair when comparing Linux to Windows (or any OS to any other OS, for that matters), and I am not sure how it is being helpful to anyone ? :huh:

It's a personal preference. All of those things I mentioned are real issues regardless whether you have experience with them or not.

And I am a full time Windows user (at work) as much as I'm a Fedora user (at home) so I am commenting from experience not philosophy. If someone doesn't get why Linux is better at all the things you mentioned, then please have them keep using Windows.

You quoted me out of context. The person I replied to seems to think that opening the source of Windows would somehow make it all better. I'm pointing out that it won't because all those flaws are engineered by design and can't just be ripped out and coded over; how Windows itself works wouldn't change much from opening the source.

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