Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.UltraBut those where sold to enthusiasts and they reinstall their Windows on a daily basis, the Steam Deck if successful will be sold to the masses and they will never ever try to install anything.

But those are the type of people who give up on the device if things don't work and it ends up dusty in a cupboard somewhere.

Why do you think that Valve is planing to sell a defunct product?

it's not defunct. it can run windows and linux.

Then I fail to understand your original comment even less with the "if things don't work". If the device is not defunct then "things do work" so help me understand here because I'm at a total loss?!

Your missing the nuance. There was no mention that valve believed they were selling a defunct product, that was your statement. But the expectation of a typical consumer has to be managed as there will be problems along the way with compatibility.

So, this device is not 100% defunct and sold as such by valve because it doesn't run every single title that would be ridiculous. But the experience of many titles not working over time eats away at the experience. So there are those people will buy a working product and eventually give up on it (like the steam controller) if it does not meet expectations, hence end up in a cupboard dusty. Then other groups of Linux users who understand that this is a work in progress (like all valve products) and then the rest are the kind who install windows for compatibility.

i do think that the native experience from a performance standpoint maybe the best as AMD GPU drivers on windows aren't very good apparently, but that would only apply to OpenGL games. There would be more features of course on windows as users have the AMD control center and all of those kinds of goodies.

But that is under the expectation that Valve will release it with the same status as Proton / Steam for Linux is in right now. We have quotes from Valve that they expect 100% compatibility when it launches (which of course is not a pledge and perhaps just a pipe dream, but it does indicate that they are putting effort into making it actually happen).

Do you really think they will have 100% stability on release without bugs on 5,000+ games including all new titles released from this point onwards? I don't (nor do i think they have to).
Unless you mean the machine will have the same version of proton installed as the desktop client which given the nature of the hardware is such an obvious given i hadn't considered you were making that point.

And I don't think that the casual user will throw the box away just because some random game does not work, that is already the reality on Windows today (far from every game works on every Windows setup) and they are not throwing their windows machines away.

PC's are different (yes the steam deck is a PC of sorts) but it's not a laptop / desktop which are used for other things like content consumption & productivity so it's not a fair comparison. In fact id wager the majority of what people use PC/laptops for is more centered around web actives/social media as a percentage than merely using them solely for gaming. So not an apples to apples comparison.

As a percentage given valves somewhat dubious survey we may not get to see how many people use the device actively with either windows / linux or more fine grained data on the amount of people who didn't use the device for a year(s) but still used their account on their main PC. There will still be very large initial uptake of Linux Steam decks im sure.

As an aside, at this rate some people will be receiving theirs mid 2022.. IF the market has been proven for PC handheld gaming, we might see other competitors launching similar devices with higher specs (updated ryzen/RDNA) running windows with the steam deck interface. By the time some people get their first deck valve might even be on revision 2 with better specs !
I don't think Linux handhelds are going to be the only handheld PC gaming devices now other companies see the enormous positive steam store destroying reaction from consumers. They will want a piece of the pie.

Perhaps we will see an Xbox Handheld with free Xbox cloud game pass & windows 11 interface when docked.

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Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.UltraBut those where sold to enthusiasts and they reinstall their Windows on a daily basis, the Steam Deck if successful will be sold to the masses and they will never ever try to install anything.

But those are the type of people who give up on the device if things don't work and it ends up dusty in a cupboard somewhere.

Why do you think that Valve is planing to sell a defunct product?

it's not defunct. it can run windows and linux.

Then I fail to understand your original comment even less with the "if things don't work". If the device is not defunct then "things do work" so help me understand here because I'm at a total loss?!

Your missing the nuance. There was no mention that valve believed they were selling a defunct product, that was your statement. But the expectation of a typical consumer has to be managed as there will be problems along the way with compatibility.

So, this device is not 100% defunct and sold as such by valve because it doesn't run every single title that would be ridiculous. But the experience of many titles not working over time eats away at the experience. So there are those people will buy a working product and eventually give up on it (like the steam controller) if it does not meet expectations, hence end up in a cupboard dusty. Then other groups of Linux users who understand that this is a work in progress (like all valve products) and then the rest are the kind who install windows for compatibility.

i do think that the native experience from a performance standpoint maybe the best as AMD GPU drivers on windows aren't very good apparently, but that would only apply to OpenGL games. There would be more features of course on windows as users have the AMD control center and all of those kinds of goodies.

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is this the kind of thing that could be integrated into VKBasalt ? or does it require the game engine exclusively to run it.

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scammers (not using the other word as it's gross) are already selling these for upto $5,000 on ebay. More fool you if you spend that money on hardware like this. But the average price is coming out at more like $1,000.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: Tom BI am a Linux gamer and I know exactly what sort of compatibility to expect. A general audience won't and valve seem to be marketing this with very high expectations. I think there will be a lot of complaints unfortunately because some games inevitably won't work.

Probably, yeah.
Although . . . I mean, if I were them I'd be doing a two-pronged approach. One would be pushing general Proton improvement + anti-cheat. The other would be a team going game by game, starting with the biggest seller on Steam and working their way down. If they could get the top 100 all to Platinum by launch, while the general team had pretty good coverage below that, it might be surprising how little of what people were wanting to play would fail.

Just like steam machines it was a lot about the poor optics of the project. Once the ball got rolling on the negative press about things that didn't work it was increasingly harder to get positive news out.
The issue is that here we are all invested in the long term of linux, it's kind of like a story for us, a journey you might say so we are willing to be super patient and forgiving.. who knows how well the marketing for this will go but i will guarantee there are people out there who are invested in making this thing not succeed at least from the Linux perspective.

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Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.UltraBut those where sold to enthusiasts and they reinstall their Windows on a daily basis, the Steam Deck if successful will be sold to the masses and they will never ever try to install anything.

But those are the type of people who give up on the device if things don't work and it ends up dusty in a cupboard somewhere.

Why do you think that Valve is planing to sell a defunct product?

it's not defunct. it can run windows and linux.

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Quoting: F.UltraBut those where sold to enthusiasts and they reinstall their Windows on a daily basis, the Steam Deck if successful will be sold to the masses and they will never ever try to install anything.

But those are the type of people who give up on the device if things don't work and it ends up dusty in a cupboard somewhere.

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Quoting: dubigrasuIf is just a launch parameter (like for SteamOS 2) then theoretically you could use it on regular Windows and loose nothing switching.

I was going to mention that. I think we are on the same lines here..

It's quite typical of valve to be so unified that they shoot themselves in the foot somewhat. I can just imagine that the UI will work just fine on windows with the press of the big picture button.. At least they could of saved some space for the Linux build to have something unique about it to disway people from switching to windows and make this a unique product.

Im not sure people are really grasping how many people will do this. As i said there is an ingrained comfort blanket with running windows. And of course creators need content.. So you can imagine the biggest channels running benchmarks on this via windows with no mention of steamOS. as seen as an inferior insta-bin piece of software.

Still, for the many that don't that will be potentially hundreds of thousands of new Linux users in the short term. Which can only be good.

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Quoting: GuestJust like 99.99% of games that run on proton today, this won't have support from developers and publishers. Hence there will be incompatibilities, glitches, bugs that do not happen in windows, and so on. Hoping that Valve or Codemasters or whoever may be able to perfectly implement every API in Directx9-12 (13 is coming at the end of this year with windows 11 btw), along with their many corner cases, inconsistencies, and other amenities is a pure illusion. Users will experience problems, it's a given. Nintendo Switch killer this ain't but could be fine for some games. Personally, I'd love it for classic emulators though.

Lets not forget the company that owns the biggest anti-cheat. Also that other gaming / OS platforms have a financial incentive to be as awkward as possible with any future software they develop. What's to stop Microsoft implementing a popular DX13 features that require some sort of cloud integration which inturn requires some kind of MS account.

I think this is a great device for source engine / indie games and some in home streaming of AAA though.

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Quoting: dubigrasu

You could even wipe Steam OS entirely and install a fresh version of Windows if you want

Heck, I'm already seeing this:

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Or see what our dear Tim has to say about it:

...an open platform where users are free to install software or their choosing - including Windows and other stores.

(because of course he said that, cough Epic Store cough)

This is exactly what i said in the original thread. You would think people have an almost pathological fear of using something different. I guess Stockholm syndrome is real, but they should call it Redmond syndrome from now on.

That said, i don't know why someone would want windows on this thing when the entire interface is designed for the steam deck, that and the KDE desktop shown looks and operates nicer than windows 11 , contains way less spyware/telemetry, has better security and Linux has almost entirely all the software you could ever want or run on a device like this. And of course, it is a different & interesting toy i mean how many windows devices do you need in the home ?
I hope people realize that monthly subscriptions to windows won't be too far in the future with windows 365.

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