Quoting: denyasis

Quoting: Eike"Access control" fits I guess, though what rights would that be that are managed? Copy protection is managing - literally - copy( )right...

In a way, same thing. Unauthorized use of the account leading to unauthorized "distribution". There's more DRM than straight copy protection, especially in a world where streaming content is becoming more prevalent. Steam client's DRM is account/password sharing protection. It's restricting your right to share your account with other people. Valve doesn't want you to do that. Neither does Netflix or Disney or any other digital distributor.

Well, Valve does explicitly allow and support sharing to some extend - except that you cannot play simultaneously. Of course, this is a restriction, yes. But I guess this needs to be in place to (copy) protect the DRMed games. If we could all just share credentials and play with the same account, copy/run protection wouldn't make sense anymore, right? So in effect, we both could not play a DRM'ed Steam game bought once simultaneously - but we could play a non-DRM'ed Steam game bought once simultaneously.

The perspective I took (it's not my own, I like using Steam) is like... You've already gamed in the Nineties. You got a game, you installed it, you played it. Nothing keeps you from copying it to somewhere else, and play it there, too, simultaneously if you like. You're not caring for "accounts", you don't need and you don't want an "account" to play a game. Because, why would you?!?

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Quoting: denyasisOk... up until this point I was finding this conversation really amusing since it appeared to me that we completely agreed on all the facts, but disagreed on the labeling of the Steam Client as DRM.

I was wondering the very same. :D

Quoting: denyasisI get that you can directly launch some games from the executable without using the Steam Client, but that's not the point. After all, what is the reason for bypassing the client? To use the software freely, without restrictions? Wouldn't that mean the Client is a DRM tool if we have to bypass it to play the game how we want?

But that's exactly what I recommend to do if you don't like DRM! If you can just use software freely, without restrictions, it's obviously not DRMed! Nobody is managing the developers'/publishers' rights - you can do what you want with it. It's just like on Gog, Itch, pirated, whatever, just that you're using the Steam client as a download tool.

So, we do completely agree on all the facts but disagree on what that means. :D

Quoting: denyasisI'd conclude that yes, Steam (the Client) does appear to attempt to regulate how and when you can play games under the same account, hence why I would call it a form of DRM. Like I mentioned before it's not copy protections (There's other DRM tools for that), but rather access control, which is still DRM.

"Access control" fits I guess, though what rights would that be that are managed? Copy protection is managing - literally - copy( )right...

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Quoting: Perkeleen_VittupääWhy do they specifically want to take this game away from so many people? "Sorry kids on Linux, we took the ability to play Roblox from you and there is nothing you can do about it haha!".

Why is this company like this!? Or is it possible that some other instance has influenced them behind the scenes?

There might be trouble in it and it's very little they lose by not supporting it. Sad, but true.

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Quoting: denyasisThe Client will prohibit you from playing two different games on different machines at the same time (almost any 2 games).

This is the point. To the very best of my knowledge - we can test it if you don't believe it - this is not the case. You can copy the game a hundred times and play it simultaneously on a hundred PCs. You don't need to log in anywhere, therefore, there's not anything that could inhibit you from doing things at once. You just got an executable and the data needed and can run it.

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Quoting: denyasis

Quoting: Frawo

Quoting: InstallSteam is drm

This is simply not true, and I'm surprised that this superstition still persists. While Steam actually offers their DRM to publishers, I haven't heard of any game sold on Steam and GOG that got DRM on Steam (though there might be a few exceptions). If you don't believe me, try to launch the *.exe of Witcher or Cyberpunk on Steam without having the Steam client open. I suppose that 99% of what is DRM free on GOG has no DRM on Steam either.

Here is a list of DRM free games on Steam:
https://steam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games [External Link]

Steam is DRM. You must use it to download the game. Steam limits when and how you can play any game.

No, it doesn't. You download the game, and then - as long as there's isn't actual DRM - you can play it when and how you want, without even having Steam at the time of playing.

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I will a look into it!

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Quoting: 14

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: GuestThis is true, but a way I see it is with GOG I can download all my installers so even if they go under/I lose access/whatever I still have my games. I know Steam promises this and that if something happened to them, but I do like the peace of mind by having my library physically on hand. It's as close to owning them as can get these days.

You can do this with some games on Steam as well - but I have to admit that I don't know how you'd know which ones before buying them.

I'd assume an API call would clear up the correlation between app ID and game name. That's what you guys mean, right?

No, I wanted to find out automagically if a Steam game works after having been copied around, without Steam. So, if an actual DRM takes place.

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Quoting: GuestThis is true, but a way I see it is with GOG I can download all my installers so even if they go under/I lose access/whatever I still have my games. I know Steam promises this and that if something happened to them, but I do like the peace of mind by having my library physically on hand. It's as close to owning them as can get these days.

You can do this with some games on Steam as well - but I have to admit that I don't know how you'd know which ones before buying them.

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Quoting: mphuZ

Quoting: EikeYou aren't giving arguments.

What for?

Why not?

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Quoting: mphuZ

Quoting: Alm888Sorry, it does not work that way. What's the site name? "rutracker.org"? Since when the GOG-keys are being sold on the third-party sites?
As I've said, shady key re-seller sites do not count.

Ask CDPR how their keys are sold on third-party sites. :woot:

Are you confusing rutracker with other sites? Well.. that says a lot.

You aren't giving arguments. "Guess what this picture is from" isn't one. If you know sites that are selling keys legally, with the knowledge and approval of CDPR, there shouldn't be a problem naming them.

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