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Prodeus cancels the Native Linux version, focusing on Proton compatibility (updated)
6 Sep 2022 at 2:34 pm UTC Likes: 3
6 Sep 2022 at 2:34 pm UTC Likes: 3
I honestly have split feelings on devs dropping native and going with "ensuring proton compatibility."
I generally don't mind proton, at all. The problem is that it does kind of screw over non-Steam storefronts a little bit, not that there was much competition. It's true enough that most people, myself included, have the majority of their digital game library in Steam anyway so it's not that big a deal for most in practice.
I imagine it's pretty likely that like a lot of these projects, they treated linux as a stretch goal and didn't even try to support linux until long after bad choices were unknowingly made in terms of being linux-friendly later -- a lot of said decisions are little more then 3rd party library choices and general considerations when building the game/app, or larger ones like frameworks, but not things easily changed later. Dollars to donuts says when they started looking at making it linux compatible it was as simple as "this might actually be hard to get working" vs. "what happens if we try it in Proton (and seeing it works with little to no effort)". It's not always entirely the developers fault, take the very popular .Net stuff that Microsoft openly claims is cross-platform -- which it is, but not in a way that anyone would assume that actually means.
I generally don't mind proton, at all. The problem is that it does kind of screw over non-Steam storefronts a little bit, not that there was much competition. It's true enough that most people, myself included, have the majority of their digital game library in Steam anyway so it's not that big a deal for most in practice.
I imagine it's pretty likely that like a lot of these projects, they treated linux as a stretch goal and didn't even try to support linux until long after bad choices were unknowingly made in terms of being linux-friendly later -- a lot of said decisions are little more then 3rd party library choices and general considerations when building the game/app, or larger ones like frameworks, but not things easily changed later. Dollars to donuts says when they started looking at making it linux compatible it was as simple as "this might actually be hard to get working" vs. "what happens if we try it in Proton (and seeing it works with little to no effort)". It's not always entirely the developers fault, take the very popular .Net stuff that Microsoft openly claims is cross-platform -- which it is, but not in a way that anyone would assume that actually means.
Lutris adds Amazon Games integration, plus Flatpak finally out (good for Steam Deck)
27 Aug 2022 at 3:18 pm UTC
27 Aug 2022 at 3:18 pm UTC
Quoting: BumadarI use wine with my NFS mounts all the time, they're just directories to wine.Quoting: dibzNo, I used the version in the tumbleweed repo. It's not that the nfs share is not available, just the gog installer, so might be a wine issue seeing the nfs as network drive.Quoting: BumadarI am not sure its a lutris problem or wine in general, need to test more when I have time. But I wanted my lutris install directory on my nas, it's mounted via nfs and works just fine with steam, loads of room and more then fast enough for gog games, however using lutris I can not install any gog game using the gog installer, it's simply ends with code 256. Any other gog install method like native Linux or dosbox etc works just fine, just the games that need the gog installer. Moving the whole thing to a local drive, install and move to nfs works but a bit of a hassle. Anyways as I said not sure if it's lutris or wine in general.Are you using the flatpak version of lutris? I don't really use flatpaks much, but I do know they sandbox with additional layers of security/protection. Preventing access to network filesystems is definitely something sandboxey things do. Hopefully someone that actually uses flatpak can comment.
Lutris adds Amazon Games integration, plus Flatpak finally out (good for Steam Deck)
27 Aug 2022 at 2:32 am UTC
27 Aug 2022 at 2:32 am UTC
Quoting: BumadarI am not sure its a lutris problem or wine in general, need to test more when I have time. But I wanted my lutris install directory on my nas, it's mounted via nfs and works just fine with steam, loads of room and more then fast enough for gog games, however using lutris I can not install any gog game using the gog installer, it's simply ends with code 256. Any other gog install method like native Linux or dosbox etc works just fine, just the games that need the gog installer. Moving the whole thing to a local drive, install and move to nfs works but a bit of a hassle. Anyways as I said not sure if it's lutris or wine in general.Are you using the flatpak version of lutris? I don't really use flatpaks much, but I do know they sandbox with additional layers of security/protection. Preventing access to network filesystems is definitely something sandboxey things do. Hopefully someone that actually uses flatpak can comment.
Valve dev understandably not happy about glibc breaking Easy Anti-Cheat on Linux
18 Aug 2022 at 7:39 pm UTC Likes: 1
18 Aug 2022 at 7:39 pm UTC Likes: 1
Quoting: shorbergI wasn't going to comment on this because it is way off-topic, but having thought about it for a while I decided to do so anyway, in the interest of public education on neural diversity. Liam or moderators may remove this if they think it inappropriate.I appreciate the explanations. Though, my use of "Borderline Autistic" is actually close to home for me. Without airing my laundry on the internet, I will say that I used the term in the context that I learned it in the first place -- in a healthcare setting when diagnosing one of my children who I could absolutely see being a "strongly opinionated linux user" like many of us, heh.
Quoting: dibzYeah, one of the best and worst things about Linux is the vocal community. And let's be honest, the people that flock tend to have very strong personalities -- borderline autistic at times.Autistic is not the word you are looking for here. It is a common and widespread misconception, but it really isn't what you are looking for to describe the individuals you are hinting at. Autistics are often asocial [External Link], generally not antisocial. Typically, if an autistic person learns they have said or done something that have hurt someone, they will feel intense remorse.
A "borderline autistic" person is a perfectly average person, you likely won't even notice anything different except perhaps slightly increased anxiety compared to baseline human their age. At most you might describe them as someone who likes to stay home and read a book on a Saturday every now and then.
They are not people who will try to rally the masses, they will probably just stand at the sideline wishing they could contribute more. There are exceptions though, a certain fellow countrywoman is a strong personality who does quite a bit to hold people accountable for the climate.
Quoting wikipedia [External Link],
The autism spectrum is a range of neurodevelopmental conditions generally characterized by difficulties in social interactions and communication, repetitive behaviours, intense interests, and unusual responses to sensory stimuli.The difficulty in social interaction and communication refers to discomfort and avoidance and reduced body language. But many autistics won't put themselves in most social situations to begin with, either because of a lack of interest in social activities or because it confuses them. Even mailing-lists, or forum posting is something that scares many.
Source: I've done a lot of reading on autism, I have talked to a lot of professionals, I have friends who are autistic and I am autistic myself. I am however far from an expert, and open to learn more.
PS. What I have described as autistics above is not a set of all people with autism spectrum disorder, it is a generalised set of the ones who are high-functioning enough that you are likely to have been in contact with them in something as complex as technical online discussions.
Valve dev understandably not happy about glibc breaking Easy Anti-Cheat on Linux
17 Aug 2022 at 3:36 pm UTC Likes: 1
Similar with Arch. I probably needed a /s for sarcasm. It's fine if you use arch by the way. :grin:
Yeah, one of the best and worst things about Linux is the vocal community. And let's be honest, the people that flock tend to have very strong personalities -- borderline autistic at times. Bad advice is extremely rampant, often times based simply on personal preference OR it puts themselves in a position of power where the advice seeker is forced to continue asking for help. It can be difficult for first timers to tell the difference. On the other hand, if one is able to navigate those waters, it's an amazing community with many different perspectives and often times intelligent reasoned discourse. Heck, look at the comment section on this site sometimes, it's rarely to the point of "requiring moderation" so to speak, but it can get fairly intense at times.
Unfortunately, and this isn't fair to engineers, but I tend to call your last bit and the behavior you describe the "engineer attitude." I'm a sysops guy, and I run into that a lot when dealing with purely-engineer folks, especially in more recent years (last 5 years maybe? could be 10...). The my-problem/not-my-problem strictness, which in the workplace can absolutely be necessary, but it can and often is abused as well. Some will recognize this as being strongly related to common workflows in practice today. You're a lot more productive the more work that isn't your problem, lol. Honestly it might be a little more fair to ascribe this to Project Managers, but certain personalities blend really well with it.
17 Aug 2022 at 3:36 pm UTC Likes: 1
Quoting: EagleDeltaI wasn't actually advocating using debian stable (which I noted), it's simply a good example of a distro where updates are extremely unlikely to break it -- not that it's impossible, stable distros still receive security updates while they're still supported and you never know, some app or another might depend on the patched behavior.Quoting: dibzPersonally I still prefer how Debian labels things with stable / testing / unstable. It's clear what it is and isn't, I would consider unstable to be their bleeding edge. I'm not personally advocating using Debian or anything, it's just a good example.The problem with that is that, as great as Debian is, "stable" runs a LOT of software that the upstream developers no longer support at all and haven't for years.
Which, IMO, is very different than what's happening here. glibc accidentally broke some software and games, but refuse to revert the change. Most projects don't take that kind of stance. They will revert breaking changes and work on a future resolution to the problem instead of pointing blame at someone else.
As for comments on Valve using an Arch-base. That's needed for what they do as fixes for gaming specifically are only found in newer software, drivers, and Linux kernels. Running something like Debian stable would be a nightmare for gaming as things are out of date and unusable for a lot of games really fast. Especially newer games and especially of those games (or WINE/DXVK/etc) rely on newer driver features that may require newer kernel features to function, etc.
Which is where part of the issue lies with gaming and Linux. A lot of "vocal" linux users and devs want GameDevs to develop for Linux, but ALSO to conform to what those "vocal" users/devs think is the "right way" and People don't work like that. Linux has to go to THEM and make their lives easy/easier when working with Linux and do so in a way that THEY are familiar with or they will just nope out and not care. And that will happen because the perception is that we, the linux community, don't care about their perspective.... so why should they care about us?
Similar with Arch. I probably needed a /s for sarcasm. It's fine if you use arch by the way. :grin:
Yeah, one of the best and worst things about Linux is the vocal community. And let's be honest, the people that flock tend to have very strong personalities -- borderline autistic at times. Bad advice is extremely rampant, often times based simply on personal preference OR it puts themselves in a position of power where the advice seeker is forced to continue asking for help. It can be difficult for first timers to tell the difference. On the other hand, if one is able to navigate those waters, it's an amazing community with many different perspectives and often times intelligent reasoned discourse. Heck, look at the comment section on this site sometimes, it's rarely to the point of "requiring moderation" so to speak, but it can get fairly intense at times.
Unfortunately, and this isn't fair to engineers, but I tend to call your last bit and the behavior you describe the "engineer attitude." I'm a sysops guy, and I run into that a lot when dealing with purely-engineer folks, especially in more recent years (last 5 years maybe? could be 10...). The my-problem/not-my-problem strictness, which in the workplace can absolutely be necessary, but it can and often is abused as well. Some will recognize this as being strongly related to common workflows in practice today. You're a lot more productive the more work that isn't your problem, lol. Honestly it might be a little more fair to ascribe this to Project Managers, but certain personalities blend really well with it.
Valve dev understandably not happy about glibc breaking Easy Anti-Cheat on Linux
17 Aug 2022 at 2:48 pm UTC
I'll admit my idea of Bleeding Edge may also be an outdated view of what the difference is, which would be a shame if that's the case. Why on earth would people blur that line on purpose? It's silly because the term becomes meaningless if people put it on everything. Bleeding Edge used to mean, essentially, Nightly. Not only would compatibility not be guaranteed between updates, it could completely break.
Personally I still prefer how Debian labels things with stable / testing / unstable. It's clear what it is and isn't, I would consider unstable to be their bleeding edge. I'm not personally advocating using Debian or anything, it's just a good example.
17 Aug 2022 at 2:48 pm UTC
Quoting: EagleDeltaHonestly, when I saw the headline with Valve and glibc my very first thought before reading the article was "that's what you get for choosing Arch for newer packages." Which was their stated reason for the switch to Arch in the past. Once I read the article I found out that wasn't the case, and they were just commenting on the situation.Quoting: dibzRarely do I run into issues on "bleeding edge" distributions. It's also important to note that "Bleeding Edge" distributions aren't generally using "Bleeding edge" versions of software. Latest upstream stable versions? yes...on more bleeding-edge Linux distributions...
Granted, when I think bleeding edge, I think software in beta stage (complete but still testing). There is a HUGE HUGE HUGE problem with certain distributions still using versions of upstream software that the upstream project has made end of life (Python 2.x anyone?)..... which is not a good practice in today's security environment.
I'll admit my idea of Bleeding Edge may also be an outdated view of what the difference is, which would be a shame if that's the case. Why on earth would people blur that line on purpose? It's silly because the term becomes meaningless if people put it on everything. Bleeding Edge used to mean, essentially, Nightly. Not only would compatibility not be guaranteed between updates, it could completely break.
Personally I still prefer how Debian labels things with stable / testing / unstable. It's clear what it is and isn't, I would consider unstable to be their bleeding edge. I'm not personally advocating using Debian or anything, it's just a good example.
Valve dev understandably not happy about glibc breaking Easy Anti-Cheat on Linux
17 Aug 2022 at 2:06 pm UTC Likes: 2
17 Aug 2022 at 2:06 pm UTC Likes: 2
...on more bleeding-edge Linux distributions...
yuzu the Nintendo Switch Emulator gets an easy Linux installer
15 Aug 2022 at 2:56 pm UTC
15 Aug 2022 at 2:56 pm UTC
Quoting: fireplaceSounds a lot like "pluses and minuses to each" like I said earlier. :)Quoting: dibzThe idea is really that flatpaks should share and reduce that overhead (just accepting some duplication with the system) by sharing runtimes, but in practice of like the 10 flatpaks I regularly use almost all of them download their own runtime version of the same thing. You can clean up some of it by asking it to remove unused, but that's very hit or miss; it works for some stuff. I just had to remove like 10 different versions of the nvidia drivers that flatpak downloads over time because it never cleans those up automatically, despite older versions being unused. Frankly, the sandboxing is nice but it's also a pain at times. You can work around it when it's an issue, but I rather dislike working around it.That’s actually a bug specific to the nvidia drivers over there. It’s being worked on.
Apps use newer versions of the same runtime automatically with no intervention from the developers. If a runtime is deprecated, then the dev would have to update. But in the case with flathub, it’s much faster because it’s a unified repo so it has the most attention. With legacy dnf and apt repos however, the app gets dropped from the distro because of the deprecated dependency. So flatpak gives you choice whether you want to keep it or not.
Sandboxing related issues will all eventually get resolved as apps adapt xdg portals (whether flatpak or not).
yuzu the Nintendo Switch Emulator gets an easy Linux installer
12 Aug 2022 at 8:10 pm UTC
12 Aug 2022 at 8:10 pm UTC
Quoting: Purple Library GuyIf you want me to segue into my issue with flatpaks in particular, I mainly just don't like dealing with all the runtimes that inevitably accumulate. Beyond just duplication of dependencies for stuff that might already be on your system, the versions of runtimes accumulate over time. A flatpak will require one or another, stop being updated, and that old one sits around around with, another software will want a slightly newer version of the same, so on and so forth. The idea is really that flatpaks should share and reduce that overhead (just accepting some duplication with the system) by sharing runtimes, but in practice of like the 10 flatpaks I regularly use almost all of them download their own runtime version of the same thing. You can clean up some of it by asking it to remove unused, but that's very hit or miss; it works for some stuff. I just had to remove like 10 different versions of the nvidia drivers that flatpak downloads over time because it never cleans those up automatically, despite older versions being unused. Frankly, the sandboxing is nice but it's also a pain at times. You can work around it when it's an issue, but I rather dislike working around it.Quoting: dibzYeah. I went through years of fiddling back in the day when there was no option, grinding through dependencies to finally get to the rpm I actually was trying to install. Things finally got to where they Just Work and I can function while just paying attention mainly to very few sources that only require a click, and I have no interest in going back. Nowadays, if it's not in the Mint Software Manager (or on Steam) it's pretty close to might as well not exist, for me.Quoting: jordicomaAgreed, system package manager any day of the week. AppImages, Flatpaks, Snaps, all seem to be the current (unfortunate) hotness and all of them are sub-par compared to native packaging.Quoting: dibzAlternatively I wrote this little bash script to update yuzu (early access) if anyone wants it. Requires jq and curl to be installed.This, and I would prefer using the distro package manager, it's easier.
#!/bin/bash -x
OUTDIR=/home/$USER/apps/appimages
ID=$(curl -s -H "Accept: application/vnd.github.v3+json" https://api.github.com/repos/pineappleEA/pineapple-src/releases/latest | jq '.assets | map(select(.name=="yuzu-x86_64.AppImage"))[].id')
curl -H "Accept: application/octet-stream" -L https://api.github.com/repos/pineappleEA/pineapple-src/releases/assets/$ID -o "$OUTDIR/Yuzu.AppImage"
chmod +x "$OUTDIR/Yuzu.AppImage"
Probably it's because I'm using linux for some years, that I think that using the package manager it's easier than searching on internet for an installer, downloading it, executing it, and follow an assistant.
I don't have a huge problem with Flatpaks in theory--mild ambivalence, but not like hostility. So if some game's Steam package is actually a Flatpak, or my Software Manager installs a Flatpak, OK, cool. But I'm not going to add a new, uncurated software source like Flathub to my software sources that might not play well with my existing stuff, and I'm not going to start messing with maintaining a bunch of separate software with separate downloads and launchers. Don't get me wrong, it's nice they made a launcher, it's a good step, but unless I have a really compelling reason that's still not quite at the stage where I'm going to use a piece of software. Not even because it would be hard to install, I'm sure it's quite easy. It's just clutter to lose track of, a source of conflicting dependencies, I don't want that kind of mess.
yuzu the Nintendo Switch Emulator gets an easy Linux installer
12 Aug 2022 at 6:53 pm UTC
12 Aug 2022 at 6:53 pm UTC
Quoting: MilaniumDo you really need a GUI updater for AppImages?AppImages are unfortunately painful to update. There are GUIs and even daemons out there that can do it, but typically the appimage itself has to be built in a way that supports updating. Yuzu actually is built (now) with support for that sort of thing, so no, it doesn't actually need a different way if you have one of those general appimage update tools installed -- they're not by default. Some apps even support this type of updating built-in, which is nice. Duckstation is another one that supports generic updating, but for example, avidemux's appimage does not and you have to download updates manually.
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