@Vortex_Acherontic

If the game is on Steam, simply run it from flatpak Steam and it will keep working. If they are not on Steam, then run them via Lutris, Heroic Games Launcher, Minigalaxy, Faugus Launcher, Cartridges, Bottles the choices are endless they all have the 32bit runtimes made available to them. This way nobody needs to package said application as a flatpak.

Provided that the launchers' 32-bit runtimes are not dependent on the upstream 32-bit libraries, I think this would be a great solution.

I've already had success with both Steam's and Lutris' runtimes to get finicky native games to run. I assume this is what you're alluding to ...

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This excites me and makes me nervous at the same time. I'm always happy to see a new version of OpenMW.

The last time they did a version update (0.47 to 0.48), the launchpad PPA deleted my installation and wouldn't let me reinstall 0.47, even using the GitHub installer. That was Mint 20.3 when it was still under active support.

Now, I've got 0.48 running on Mint 21.3. Upgrading to Mint 22 resulted in OpenMW failing to run, so I fell back to Mint 21.3. If the PPA tries to upgrade to 0.49, will I face the same problem I did with 0.47 to 0.48?

When you look at the PPA files, there is literally only one file for jammy (22.04) or noble (24.04) -- the core executable and other dependencies are not listed.

I'm seriously thinking about dropping the PPA altogether and just using the GitHub installer.

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@Vortex_Acherontic

But forcing every distribution to drag around 32bit libs just for Steam ... I don't think Valve should be allowed to hold us all hostage with this.

It's not just Valve's Steam client, you know ...

if ppl would have adopt Flatpak

If people would have to adopt Flatpak? ... What happened to free choice here? Why should I be forced to use it if I don't want to use it?

@Eduardo Medina

Windows doesn't kill anything, it keeps very old components for decades

Huh? Since when? These days, old Windows software runs better on Linux than it does on newer versions of Windows. Admittedly, M$ isn't as ruthless as Apple but still ...

Also, refer to the quote from @CajunMoses

Microsoft has the audacity to block users of older technology from using the most recent version of its desktop OS.

In case you didn't know it, Windows 11 enforces planned obsolescence by unnecessarily requiring specific hardware security features that are only available on new computers (mostly 2019 or later), forcing the discard of perfectly good hardware to use Windows 11. For those of us who prefer the quality of older hardware, M$ is giving us the finger.

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@Cyba.Cowboy

You might want to reread the second paragraph or check out the Nvidia link. Both say that the upcoming 580 series will be the last for Maxwell, Pascal and Volta GPUs. It's not happening immediately.

@mi1stormilst
Or, in my case -- since I game on a laptop -- I don't want to to spend any more money on a new laptop ...

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@Leahi84

I was in the retail computer industry at that time. I kept having to reassure customers that the computers we were selling were not affected by the problem. I could not believe how the media blew things up completely out of proportion. But, then, given the media's behavior since then, I am not all that surprised anymore.

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I have a Pascal GPU. I knew it had to happen eventually. At least we're getting some decent advance warning. It has been nice having a GPU under active driver support for a while...

I really hope that Nvidia hands over the support for these GPUs to the NVK team and does whatever's necessary to open up full access to these chips as well. If they're not going to support them, then at least give the community what it needs to support them in Nvidia's place.

I know, I'm not going to hold my breath but a guy can hope...

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2038 is the hard cut-off date for 32-bit applications. After this date, 32-bit applications will not be able to measure time accurately

So, basically, the Y2K problem all over again? I must be really out of touch -- I didn't even realize this problem existed. That being said, 32-bit systems can still use 64-bit numbers. Odds are pretty high, though, that the default was to use 32-bit numbers on 32-bit systems. Just like with Y2K, adjustments to existing software are going to be needed ...

Fedora can't just drop the ~9000 packages that have nothing to do with Steam because of the way their build system is made.

I got that sense as well. It would take a great deal of study and careful planning. I think that one of the goals of the proposal was to get the ball rolling on that process.

Native 32-bit Linux games not being playable on Linux is an overblown issue. The fact is, most of them are not playable even with Steam Runtimes in my experience. Proton is the better choice in most cases.

I tried to argue that "Proton may be a better choice than Native" a year or so back on this site, for this reason. The hostility I got as blowback was palpable.

There was also some amount of civil discussion and quite a lot of good points raised. I think this change proposal was pretty successful in that respect.

Once I got around to reading a bit of the thread, I thought so too.

Hopefully, when they decide to revisit this problem, they will be a little clearer on the goals of the new proposal -- particularly avoiding short soundbites that can be exploited by the clickbait sites and YouTubers. We all know that this issue will need to be revisited again at some point.

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@syylk

against planned obsolescence which would require you to buy a new iPhone every time the old one's warranty expires

Oh, you don't want to get me started on Apple. I sold their products in the '90s and '00s. Among many issues, they punished my business if we tried to provide good customer service to our customers -- by refusing to take back DOAs we accepted back from our customers. The experience of being an Apple dealer made me intensely hostile to the company and its policies. Apologies to any Apple fans on this site but I will not purchase or recommend Apple products to anyone.

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@syylk

Thank you for your calm and reasoned response.

Because the engineer proposing the change says so in the very discussion thread this article is about

You caught me. I haven't had time to read the thread (until now). Thank you for the link to the relevant data. While one could argue that it's just his word, I am reasonably satisfied from what was wrote that RH is not directly involved.

the technology we're discussing to get rid of (again and again) is so old

I don't think there should be a time limit on reuse. Do you?

That being said, it is really irrelevant for, as you point out, work is in progress to address these concerns. I haven't looked into the status of WOW64 recently but my understanding is that it is still a work-in-progress. So yes, we are getting closer to the point that 32-bit libraries may no longer be necessary. I simply prefer caution over exuberance.

I have a number of games that are installed in 32-bit prefixes, but you are right. I am finding that more and more of them no longer seem to need that special treatment. (Although, Winetricks tends to complain a great deal about the 64-bit ones when adding dependencies.)

The ancient Irish had a legal system that was quite successful for a very long time. One of the hallmarks believed to have contributed to its longevity was that the judges, lawyers, and kings would meet regularly to discuss the laws, whether they were still relevant and whether they needed to be changed or revoked. Every four years, I think.

Based on what I read in the discussion, this is not much different. It is a periodic review to determine just how relevant the 32-bit libraries are and whether or not the point has been reached to consider their removal. Filtering out the opinions of zealots on either side, of course. There was some discussion about identifying which 32-bit libraries are still being actively used (Steam, Bazzite, et al) and just removing those that aren't. Overall, I am quite impressed by the process. Everyone is entitled to express their opinion as they work towards a consensus. I am quite confident that they will come to a reasonable decision.

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@syylk

can we please stop blabbering about corporate greed and for-profit progressism? These are guys helping for free in their free time. It's not IBM, it's not RedHat, it's a different thing.

Since only two people commented about this, I'm going to assume you're talking about me.

Please slow down and read what I wrote more carefully. I did not say that corporations were directly involved or that the volunteers were corporate flunkies. I said that there is no need for open source volunteers to employ a philosophy developed by a corporate for-profit mentality. A completely different thing.

Besides, how do you know that this issue is not being influenced by IBM or RedHat in some way? If we maintain old things, we do not buy new things.

Resources are scarce.

This is precisely why it is so important that the volunteers step up to maintain these old technologies. You know that -- with the possible exception of companies like GOG or Valve -- the for-profit sector is not going to do it. Our society has been devaluing the idea of maintenance against the "convenience" of a throwaway habit that only benefits the for-profit sector -- at the expense of our society, culture and environment. In fact, it is the lack of maintenance that is causing this resource scarcity.

It's too early now? Most likely yes.

It is too early. We need to fully develop and deploy the containers, runtimes and technologies like WOW64 that enable 32-bit apps to run in a 64-bit environment before we abandon the libraries needed to run them right now. Honestly, even in the corporate world, there are businesses that still utilize Windows XP or Windows 98 because of a critical application that absolutely will not run in modern operating systems.

Do I have a solution?

For now, IMO, the solution is to continue supporting 32-bit libraries. Which, of course, means that we will see more reviews such as this one popping up periodically in the future.

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