Quoting: MohandevirCouldn't they (Intel, AMD & Nvidia... Khronos? Valve?) figure it out together, for once, and come up with one open source standard?

No.

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Well, so they got AMD, which gets them Steam Deck. We'll see how much urgency there will be to get NVidia going.

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Quoting: jens( _the_ tip for having a good Gnome experience, learn the keyboard shortcut’s)

That sounds very plausible. But I don't wanna learn keyboard shortcuts to be able to use my DE. I'm fine with the WIMP style interface, thanks.

I should probably give KDE another try one of these days. Tried it two or three times in the past; each time it was like, I respected it, but it didn't feel comfortable and there was something or other that didn't work.

I'm happy with MATE. It works like a basic normal (yes, fairly Windowsy except with more control over it) desktop with sane defaults. I probably can't do as many things with it as I could with KDE, but all I really want is a taskbar, a menu, and the ability to stick another taskbar or something (preferably on the side because screens are wide so I don't miss the real estate there) with launchers on it. MATE does that for me and is just comfortable to use.

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Quoting: peta77

Quoting: whizseI'm not sure why this isn't done. Maybe the amount of "Game crashes on start" issues (which are the easiest to test for) aren't that many?

I think you mentioned it yourself why this isn't done:

... the biggest collection of Win32 applications in the world ....
... do an automatic bisect until the breakage is found ...

That's an awful lot of work, you'd probably need a giant cluster to do that in a reasonable amount of time for all of the games/apps.

What's a reasonable time? It doesn't have to be all that fast. Say you have one solid computer sitting around doing that, and it takes 1 minute to launch and test 1 game for 1 Wine version. That's 1440 tests per day. Anything that works with the current version, you don't have to test again until next version comes out, and that's probably like 3/4 of games currently. At first, maybe you have a second solid computer just going through Wine versions for the 1/4 that fail on the first computer. You don't need to go through versions all the way back to 1.0, you just want to do a few to be sure there wasn't a recent regression. And of course you're dumping your results into a database, so second time around you only need to check games once. So with that setup, 1440 games per day, sure that's going to take quite a while to go through all the games . . . but if you go down the list from most towards least popular, by the time the next Wine version comes out and you need to start again, say a month, you've tested the top 43,000 games. That is a really solid chunk of what anyone ever plays.
Maybe after that first month you can set the second computer continuing down through the lower-popularity games while the first computer keeps looping back to re-test the most popular ones.

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Quoting: 14

Quoting: g000h

Quoting: 14Who has a Pi anymore? It's the age of Pine64, Odroid, etc. :)

Plenty of reasons for me (UK citizen) to use Raspberry Pi instead of your suggestions:

A lot of those points are higher concerns for yourself than they are for me.

Well, you asked "Who?"
g000h told you who. Doesn't mean you have to suddenly be among that who. Just as they don't have to ditch the solution that works best for them because you find it insufficiently contrarian.

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Quoting: elmapul"This sounds like a really great project, and hopefully one game developers will appreciate."
one or some?
one developers?

No, the grammar's OK. "One" here refers back to the most recent noun, "project", so the meaning is "and hopefully (a project) game developers will appreciate"

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Quoting: sudoer

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: sudoeryeah but it's another thing breaking the system entirely by just installing Steam, and another one having no sound -due to possibly bleeding edge hardware- also who knows if his colleague has the same top-notch hardware and peripherals, I very much doubt it. As I said he should have taken a hint from Valve, and today news is that Valve recommends for now Manjaro KDE

Yes, for developers who are trying to emulate a Steam Deck so they can make their games work on it, because it will get them a system whose guts have a resemblance to SteamOS 3.0.
That doesn't make it recommended or uniquely recommendable for other Linux gaming use cases.

Gaming engines and technology are moving forward everyday and constantly evolving, which means libraries, APIs, GPU drivers, kernels are moving forward everyday as well to support the new software and hardware, so please go tell a Linus guy that he can't play his game because his old-ass distro you 've suggested for him does not support his new hardware, his new peripherals, the game's libraries are newer than those that he has in his system, his GPU drivers do not support the new shiny effects or are performing worse and that he has to wait some years for it or compile a new version by himself or probably destroy his OS in 10 minutes by mixing new and old libraries like in MX Linux, and nice things like that to scare him away. Valve is unquestionably the one and only leading force for Linux penetration amongst the new generation of gamers, and has wisely chosen Arch for all those reasons, transparency and simplicity (faster package-manager because it doesn't have to solve 1mil. dependencies and do 10mil checks, meaning an update wouldn't last 1 hour like in Mint for just unpacking a package), and is already advising Arch-based Manjaro to the devs, not Fedora or OpenSUSE TW, or Debian Sid... ,so you can expect new Linux users -because of Steam and the Steam Deck- going with the Arch-line and very probably staying with it, which means Manjaro will be their starting distro, then maybe they can start exploring EndeavourOS, going Garuda, SteamOS 3.0, or even later vanilla Arch. So it is actually the de facto recommendation and you can either accept it with the upcoming reality forged by Valve, or live in your own :)

I do not want to get into a distro flame war. And your attitude is such that I can't really keep discussing without getting into one. Good day.

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Quoting: sudoeryeah but it's another thing breaking the system entirely by just installing Steam, and another one having no sound -due to possibly bleeding edge hardware- also who knows if his colleague has the same top-notch hardware and peripherals, I very much doubt it. As I said he should have taken a hint from Valve, and today news is that Valve recommends for now Manjaro KDE

Yes, for developers who are trying to emulate a Steam Deck so they can make their games work on it, because it will get them a system whose guts have a resemblance to SteamOS 3.0.
That doesn't make it recommended or uniquely recommendable for other Linux gaming use cases.

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Quoting: whizseI'm guessing most of you already knows this, but here's a simplified turn of events for Proton/Wine development that's hopefully not altogether incorrect:

The story of Game.exe

Game.exe is released but crashes on start in Wine. It requires Foo() and Bar() library.dll. Foo and Bar are implemented by someone reading the API documentation from Microsoft. Bar isn't really used by the game so a minimal version is added to fulfil the dependency for the game. The game works.

The sequel Game2.exe is released but crashes on start because it needs the full implementation of Bar. Bar is implemented in Wine, the game works.

An update to Game2.exe is released and crashes on start in Wine. Turns out that Game2.exe now calls Bar with NULL instead of the expected integer value. This is undocumented behaviour but works on Windows, so the behaviour in Wine is changed to match Windows. The game works again.

Game3.exe for Windows 11 is released. It crashes on start in Wine. It requires library2.dll to run. Someone figures out that if the game runs on Windows 10 the older library.dll is used instead, a game specific hack that reports version 10 for Game3.exe is added and the game works.

Now multiply this for all the dlls and functions a game need to run and things get complex fast.

(The movie rights to this original short story have already been acquired by Sony Pictures Entertainment™)

This account underlines for me a major difficulty for Wine: Windows stuff tends to need not just Windows, but stacks of proprietary third-party libraries, which Wine also needs to duplicate.

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Quoting: rustybroomhandle

Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: rustybroomhandleThat NUC is frickin' adorable tho.

There are some others that come with Linux pre-installed that GOL has reported on before, if you're interested in that kind of thing.

Alas, I have 9 cats to support, I cannot spend 600 bucks on electronics. :P

Wait, wait . . . 9?!
Do you ever manage to take more than a couple of steps at a time in your home before you trip over someone or have to pat someone or feed or clean up after someone?

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