Quoting: DebianUser

Quoting: GuestI kinda brace myself since some people love to point fingers at things like this and claim that Arch is a bad/buggy/difficult distro. I ran it for many years and something big like this happened maybe once or twice a year and always had a simple fix; it's darn solid. I am pretty sure I had more problems with my distro of choice's last upgrade than my entire Arch days..

I don't know Arch but tu put things into perspective, i'm using Debian, and they have broken grub two times this two last years (on stable), leaving users who have updated at the wrong time with an unbootable device without any warning (have to use another install or live cd, and reinstall grub on the disk).
Of course, this problem has been spotted in derivatives (Ubuntu, Mint...)
So yeah... sh** happens, even on the most stable distros (and on Windows too, of course).

Huh, do you have something weird there? I've been running stable for decades, and haven't had grub break. Also, I mean why would you reboot unless you've updated the kernel? :P

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: slaapliedjeI pretty much insist on HP printers, or Network printers that support PCL5 or 6. Basically everything supports those, I have even been able to print from my Amiga onto my Office Jet.

That's what I wanted to do last time I needed a new printer... until I found out that I don't need a driver anymore for standard printing. So I chose just by printer quality, not by driver support. I don't know if I'm missing anything by not using PCL, and it probably won't work with an Amiga, but I'm happy with my new one. :)

http://aminet.net/package/comm/tcp/NetPrinter [External Link] Give it a shot.. you know you want to...

Erm... Why would I? :)

Ha, I've been trying to get Amiga OS4.1FE to be stable / usable through FS-UAE It locks up about as often as Windows 95 used to...

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Quoting: whizse

Quoting: slaapliedjeNice, depends on the printer too. The HP that I had actually had 'chipped' ink cartridges, and it'd detect third party ones... talk about DRM for Printers....

That's just horrible.

I really thought better of HP considering their site for the Linux drivers is just a banner saying something like "Oh, Linux drivers? You know what, you can download them here, but you probably won't need to. They're already included in your distro."

Yeah, I was disappointed on that. I am not sure if they stopped that nonsense shortly after they did it, because it kind of seems like something Apple would do...

Granted now that I've had a Laserjet for years, I've never replaced the toner cartridges.

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Quoting: whizseI just buy the cheap big pack knock-off cartridges.

Funny though, the Windows drivers complain loudly about non-OEM cartridges. The Linux driver does not. We're clearly missing important features! I shall have to make an official complain.

Nice, depends on the printer too. The HP that I had actually had 'chipped' ink cartridges, and it'd detect third party ones... talk about DRM for Printers....

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Quoting: whizseYeah, IPP Everywhere supposedly solves all these issues, but I haven't tried it for myself yet. People keep giving me their old "broken" printers so I never buy anything new.

Ha, I've legit bought new printers because the ink cartridges for my current one cost more than buying a new printer. And as I rarely printed things before, the ink cartridges would dry up because I'd not leave the printer on (printers do a cycle that keep the ink cartridges clean and then you run out of ink anyhow...)

Finally gave up and bought a laserjet.

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: slaapliedjeI pretty much insist on HP printers, or Network printers that support PCL5 or 6. Basically everything supports those, I have even been able to print from my Amiga onto my Office Jet.

That's what I wanted to do last time I needed a new printer... until I found out that I don't need a driver anymore for standard printing. So I chose just by printer quality, not by driver support. I don't know if I'm missing anything by not using PCL, and it probably won't work with an Amiga, but I'm happy with my new one. :)

http://aminet.net/package/comm/tcp/NetPrinter [External Link] Give it a shot.. you know you want to...

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Quoting: BielFPsBefore someone says "something something Arch bad for steam deck something something" I would like to remember that Steam deck will not pull updates from the main arch Linux repositories, instead Valve will push updates from their official ones, in order to avoid this kind of regressions.

I'm not sure they've actually said such things, or we've just assumed that's what they'll do, because it'd be madness otherwise. :tongue:

Weird, I've had previous issues with freetype2 and arch. Other one I had issues with was ghostscript. The bug was that it'd just print a solid black page. That was amusing...

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Quoting: RedfaceThey do not need to pull upstream packages from Debian, its a choice, which prevents some duplicate work in creating the packages, and a way to get a overlap of the Debian and Ubuntu developers.
Without having the packages in sid as well new versions can be maintained in the Ubuntu repositories. Some of the community maintained packages might be dropped, or only available as a snap, but there are still enough packages in main to have a full distribution.

Uhm... pretty sure it isn't a choice at the moment, it's literally automated.

One of the things people forget.
Debian repositories are split up as such.
main, contrib, non-free.
These are all considered 'supported'. main is the stuff fully compliant with the DFSG, contrib are contributed by various Debian developers and are licensed in a way that they can't be in main. Like the game-data-packager, which is essentially a bunch of scripts for creating packages around games, like it'll package up quake4 for you as a .deb package you can then install and play.
Non-free is the completely non-free stuff, like the nvidia driver, where they aren't open source and such.

Then you have Ubuntu repositories.
Main (fully supported)
Universe, and multi-verse (which I can never remember which is which, but they're all considered unsupported packages.)
I want to say there was another, but it's been a while...

Then you have chrome/chromium being a forced snap.

But really what it comes down to is... who gives a shit what I say, use what makes you happy :)

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Quoting: Redface

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: RedfaceI mentioned in this thread that Lutris is in 21.04, and it will be available in 21.10 when it releases too.
This is an important and in my opinion good way that Ubuntu is based on Debian. If you want a new package in Ubuntu you have to get it into Debian first. Its not only to not duplicate work but also to keep Ubuntu close to Debian.

I have already gone into that they do not build packages to have _ubuntu_ in them. The version of Lutris in 21.10 has no ubuntu in it for example: https://packages.ubuntu.com/hirsute/lutris [External Link]
And while packaging is an important part to create a distribution, its not all, like for example building is important, where I have posted some links already, and we have not got into supporting multiple releases.

If that basically was no work the Popos and Mint for example would probably not rely on Ubuntu repositories for the bulk of their packages.

And I do have a lot of respect of Debian, it was in fact the first Linux distribution I installed on my Amiga in the 90ies.

They still need to pull upstream packages from Debian as Debian has tons of volunteers and some paid developers. So even if they pull the source with debian patches, then patch their own stuff, they'd still go away if Debian did.

They do not need to pull upstream packages from Debian, its a choice, which prevents some duplicate work in creating the packages, and a way to get a overlap of the Debian and Ubuntu developers.
Without having the packages in sid as well new versions can be maintained in the Ubuntu repositories. Some of the community maintained packages might be dropped, or only available as a snap, but there are still enough packages in main to have a full distribution.

And new source packages are also not needed for the already released distributions, except for the rolling parts like the kernel, firefox and nvidia drivers, but those are updated independent of Debian all the time anyway.

I do not want to repeat all arguments again, and you also wrote that you did not think Ubuntu would go away in a previous post here: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/08/debian-11-qbullseyeq-is-officially-out-now/comment_id=209242

Once you have a Debian source package you also do not have to start from scratch for a new upstream release.

I'm not arguing. Stating how it is. Debian has a lot more volunteers than Ubuntu does. If Debian went away, what I said specifically was that Ubuntu and it's derivatives would suffer, as they would lose all that support. There are many who contribute to Debian who will not contribute directly to Ubuntu. Likely for the same reasons Valve originally chose Debian for SteamOS and not Ubuntu.

(Instead of quoting your other messages... I'll summarize)
Ubuntu wants everyone to use snaps. The end. No one wants to use snaps though. Which is why Mint, PopOS and others have basically just used the repos of Ubuntu and do not enable snaps by default. That is the main difference to me and many of their users, is they don't enforce snap use.

I personally use PopOS on my laptop as it has one of the best integrations for that Optimus crap that everyone in the Linux community who owns one of those laptops hate with a passion. It works quite well in PopOS, I just wish my dual-boot RHEL8 would work as well, I have to basically switch to Discrete Graphics mode in the BIOS for RHEL to work, and then the battery is eaten too quickly and the thinkpad gets hot...

I'm well aware of their plans for dropping 32bit, I read all the things on it. Sure they weren't going to 'completely' drop it. But they wanted to gimp it.. onward to their step to obliterate it. Ubuntu WANTS to be the next Apple on the desktop, so they try to follow those trends, but unlike with Apple, there is really no need to drop 32bit support in Linux.

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Quoting: EikeDid that with my mother-in-law. It worked very well until she got a 88 bucks printer which I couldn't get to work from remote. (If I only had known that printers work easily nowadays on Linux via that WiFi stuff I keep forgetting the name of...!)

I pretty much insist on HP printers, or Network printers that support PCL5 or 6. Basically everything supports those, I have even been able to print from my Amiga onto my Office Jet.

Granted I also bought a black and white laser printer that has USB, Network and parallel, and can act like an Epson or IBM Printer Pro or something... and have actually printed from an Atari 800 using Print Shop :P Though I still wish I could find a sheet feeder for it... for that I have a dot matrix :P

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